The Ostroy Report is an aggressive voice for Democrats, the progressive agenda and serves as a watchdog of the Republican Party and President Trump.
Sunday, May 25, 2008
Hillary, Hillary, Hillary. An Open Letter to the Former Future President
What happened? No really, what the fuck just happened to you? I can't for the life of me figure out how a once-promising presidential campaign--a sure thing for Pete's sake--turned into a pathetic embarrassment? You've had such a head start in this quest to occupy the Oval Office. I mean, literally, you and Bill have been planning it since at least January 1993 when he became president. Was there a more plausible, natural, inevitable scenario than you following in his larger-than-life footsteps? And Chelsea after you? The Clinton Dynasty. Has such a regal ring to it, doesn't it?
But then 2008 rolled around and something terrible happened. Both you and Bill lost that famous mojo. It started in Iowa, where you were all but certain to win. Everyone, including yourself, anointed you the Queen of the Ball before the dance even began. And then you lost. Some inexperienced kid named Barack Obama came out of nowhere and stole your thunder. And then you sat down and cried. In front of the cameras, and the good folks of New Hampshire felt sorry and gave you their state. And just like that The Comeback Twins came back yet again. Never count out a Clinton, huh?. Ahh, but then came February. Damn February. The junior Senator from Illinois, that pesky Kid, won big on Super Tuesday--despite your pickups in NY, NJ, CA and a few others--and later in the month racked up an impressive string of eleven consecutive wins. Ouch. That's when the chorus of "Hillary Should Quit" calls officially began. But you'd have nothing of the sort. This was a battle, and you were in it till then end. And we admired you for it.
March was much kinder to you, as was April and May. You won big key swing states like Ohio and Pennsylvania, and trounced The Kid in Appalachia. You even managed to obtain more delegates and popular votes in these three months than The Kid. But the "Hillary Should Quit" calls kept coming, weighing you down and casting an ominous cloud over your campaign. The endorsements kept going to Obama too (Richardson, Edwards, etc) and the super-delegates began to flow to your opponent in anything but a trickle, until he had more of them than you. Many even started to desert you, switching their allegiance. But you pressed on. Even with Bill out there accused of playing the race card and pissing off as many people as he once impressed, especially in the black community. To many, perhaps the "first black president" wasn't so black after all.
Then there were the many boneheaded comments you made. You remember, like the time you basically said that while you and the GOP's presumptive nominee, Sen. John McCain, were tough enough and experienced enough to be commander-in-chief, Obama merely had "a speech." Didn't you realize how that irresponsible blunder would come back to haunt the party in November? Or how about the one where you told everyone that the "hard-working whites" won't vote for Obama. Honestly, Hill, with all those fancy degrees and years of elite lawyering, didn't you realize that some things were meant to be privately thought but not publicly voiced? And so the "Hillary Should Quit" calls continued unabated. Yet we were still in your corner.
You vowed to stay in the race and fight until the very last American exercised his or her inalienable right to vote. You vowed to fight for women everywhere. To be a role model for young girls. To show them that women can be just as tough, just as resilient, just as determined, just as ambitious and just as successful as a man. Your campaign was no longer merely about becoming president. It became a lesson for the history books. A paradigm-changing feminist movement. And we applauded your determination and stuck by you.
You parsed and nuanced and molded the process to fit your end-goal of ultimately snagging the nomination from the grip of The Kid by convincing the super-delegates that you had the better narrative. That you were the more electable candidate. Since neither you or The Kid would end the campaign with enough pledged delegates to win, in an effort to make your case even more compelling, you threw as much shit up on the wall as you possibly could in the desperate hope that something would stick, ie that you had more popular votes; that we should re-seat Michigan and Florida's delegates; that only you could win back the Reagan Democrats. At this point, while we continued to support you, we grew a little leery of your motives and a tad weary of your disingenuousness.
No matter how many "Hillary Should Quit" cries we heard, we still believed in you and went along for the ride, no matter how bumpy. We defended you wherever and whenever we could. Like Bill, we made excuses for you, and chalked up your blind ambition and your regrettable gaffes to long days, late nights and the general stress of the campaign trail. We vowed to support your valiant fight till the end, right along with you, no matter how taxing it became.
And then the unthinkable occurred. When asked last week by South Dakota’s Sioux Falls Argus Leader newspaper about all this "Hillary Should Quit" nonsense, you said: "My husband did not wrap up the nomination in 1992 until he won the California primary somewhere in the middle of June, right? We all remember Bobby Kennedy was assassinated in June in California. You know I just, I don’t understand it." Jeez, Hillary, are you out of your fucking mind? Even if you didn't mean it, to suggest that as a justification to stay in the race, Obama could be assassinated before the primary season is over, is perhaps the most shocking, shameful, morally reprehensible thing you could have possibly ever said. How could you? Do you realize that with that one comment you threw away whatever shot you may have had to fulfill your dream of convincing, brainwashing and/or bullying the super D's into handing you the nomination? How could you implode like that? It was a despicable act of desperation and, quite frankly, it was pathetic. With that one reckless opportunistic blunder you not only threw away the campaign, but your legacy as well. A once valiant warrior, you are now just a sad footnote in history. An embarrassment. I suspect you will never recover politically from your monumentally insensitive RFK comment, made in the very same week that Massachusetts Sen. Ted Kennedy was diagnosed with a deadly brain tumor.
And so I can no longer support this destructive campaign of yours. It's time for me to say "Hillary Should Quit." You have taken your insatiable hunger for the presidency too far. You've let so many of us down. You will not be president. You will not be vice president. It's time to step aside and let the Democratic Party and the nation heal, ultimately with Obama as our nominee and hopefully our president as well. It's time for something different. You just convinced me that America needs more than politics as usual, especially your kind. I am so disappointed, Hillary.
To our readers...
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Posted by The Ostroy Report at 7:56 AM
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Ostroy, what happened to hillary is called double standard bull-shit. take a look at your own bloggers and you can see the problem.If bill or hillary mention race and how the black voter's,vote,their called racist by sidney, micheal and other obama supporters.If sidney and his friends say obama is a fine upstanding Black man who africian americans are voting for out of pride,thats OK.If hillary can't take a state,that obama is ahead in in the polls then she can't win,When obama can't take a state where the polls have hillary ahead,Obama fans bring out the RACE card and claim racist white folk gave clinton the win.Racism is being used in the campaign,but it's being used by the obama camp.Hillary's in a no win spot,she's damned if she does and damned if she don't.John Mccain will not be ham strung with these problems.And to show you how much Obama count on using the race card,watch what happens in the general.ALL Of a sudden Obama will find a spot in his campaign for his white relatives that most people couldn't say whether their alive or dead.Where's grandma(STILL UNDER THe BUS),where's mom,and where's grandpa.This has been a double standard since day one.Hillary could do no good,obama could do no wrong.
I just hope some passionate Hillary supporters don't resort to calling you anti-woman.
Her reference to RFK struck me as not that big of a deal when I first heard them. It was simply an illustration (along with Bill of 1992) of how common it has been for campaigns to linger into June. However, it appears that, once again, she bent the facts to fit her narrative. She was historically incorrect since in 1992, Bill had the nomination sewn up in March when Tsongas stepped aside. Jerry Brown was still in the race, but it was, for all intents and purposes, over in April. RFK had entered the race late only about 6 weeks or so before the assassination. Apparently, she also made the RFK reference a couple of months ago. There is no limit to hwo far she will go. She is shameless and disgraceful. If she has even an ounce of loyalty to the Democratic Party and our country, she needs to exit after the June 3 primaries and work tirelessly to help get Obama elected. Perhaps she'll be offered a cabinet position. Secretary of HHS?
Obama supporters are in for a rude awakening. All the racists aren't dead yet. There are not enough young voters to make up for the racists and the ticked off female vote.
Yes, we are very ticked off.
If Obama doesn't ask Hillary to be VP (even if she turns it down) say hello to President McCain!
I agree. Many female voters are going to vote for McCain. They are disgusted with the Dem Party.
It will be fun watching the clueless Obama supporters.
Hillary Clinton has not been, Presidential. Barack Obama has.
The argument that Obama supporters are clueless works to his favor, as it worked for Rushmore-bound George Bush, twice. Bush STILL has 28% of the public "approving" the way he's handling things.
Hillary soiled her brand like Starbucks has. Obama is - in the marketing cliche, "new and improved."
They're brands. They elicit emotions. But, the idea that Democratic damsels will faint into the arms of McCain is as likely as them all dumping Jimmy Choo and Louis Vuitton for Cat Work boots and ESPN wallets.
Do you honesly think the Repubs are going to make nicey nice with Obama because he says times have changed?
Say hello to President McCain.
Hey Hillary supporters guess what I as a Obama supporter could careless if McCain wins I have no children or grandchildren that can be sent off to his wars, My daughter and I both are done with having kids (don't need abortions), and I retired he can't screw with my pay so I don't give a flying F**k, I am not a women liber and the only one that it will hurt is the next generation so, you can't hurt me and neither can John McCain. I am sure Blacks in this country who been without for so long won't be able to tell the difference, so I wonder who this will affect?
The Repubs will use smear and fear like they always do.
Will it work?"
Gee, could Bush pull something right before the election?
You bet he could.
Will dumb uninformed Americans change their votes out of fear?
You bet they will.
You are not a Dem. You are a greedy, selfish American.
May you rot in you know where!!!!!!!!!!
Clueless Obama supporters? You mean those of us who USED to be Clinton supporters, but who have become fed up with her Rovian tactics?
This over-50 hard working white woman began the campaign season undecided, but as it progressed, I moved increasingly away from the stench that was the Clinton campaign.
Obama has taken the high road, no matter how much mud the Clintons slung at him. I realized he was the candidate with the ideas, intellect, and integrity required for the highest office in the land.
The sour grapes of the Clinton supporters show the pettiness her campaign encouraged. The false feminism of Sen. Clinton.
It is NOT feminism to abandon integrity and support a candidate merely because she has a vagina. Sen Clinton is willing to throw the Democratic party and women under the bus if it will advance herself politically. Her oh-so-easily disproved tales of her political record were strong hints of her character.
There are many women who could and will make better presidential candidates than Sen. Clinton, and I can only hope her overlong, divisive, and destructive campaign doesn't also scotch their chances, but I fear it has.
For those who would stay home or vote for McCain instead: you would prefer 4 (or more) years of Bush policies? How petty and childish to be willing to sacrifice the entire country because you didn't get your way, but I guess shouldn't be surprising considering their favored candidate and her husband's behavior.
I totally agree with 8:18 and thank God he or she responded and with such wisdom. I can't believe Hillary is being damned and condemned to a blank page in history and urged out of the race immediately because she, once again, stated the truth and the obvious. I, myself, have thought of the RFK assassination as a possibility in this campaign. And, as hostile as the black voters were to Ferraro and super delagates, Hillary's assassination has always been a possibility too. That's why early on Obama got the largest security guard in our country's history -- I'm not sure about Hillary's safety. Why has everyone become so weak-kneed that the truth can't be spoken. Not only that, Hillary looked overcome with emotion when she made the remark.
And the possibility of assassination should be the main reason for not having Hillary as the v.p. Their supporters are too fractured to accept the other's candidate, and we all know there are crazy fanatics on both sides.
And, if she's a little off her game - who wouldn't be. Again read 8:18. The hatred and discrimination she has suffered would have put George Washington off his game. (Sorry - there was no former female president to use in my example.)
Obama's crowd has known that "race" was a winning issue in the Democratic Party and he has used it mercilessly. Even then it wasn't working until Ted K. threw his hat in Obama's ring. And why -- accoding to Dowd, out of what he considered a slight against his assassinated brother.
Where are the mature Americans?
A message to the distraught followers of Hillary:
If you're so damn well ticked off because your flawed heroine has been rejected, why not keep your malicious intents private. You are perfectly free to vote for anyone you choose, so stop displaying your petulence, this is not the time for childish behavior. Your opponent's supporters will not be intimidated into coddling you, especially right now with all the hurtful comments stuff thrown towards them. Bitter people like yourselves, and that caustic Geraldine Ferraro, should stop your pathetic public griping. If you are true feminists, then behave as such, be strong and live life courageously.
Anon 8:18 said it all. I might add that it has been the media that has tried to, and I see succeeded in taking Hillary down. As I have said many times over in this blog that there hasn't been any newspaper, magazine, radio of TV article that has been kind to Hillary. From the very beginning this has been shown as a scream to dump the Clintons, just like the media did to Dean and Kerry in 2004. Every remark from Hillary or Bill has been taken out of context and now I see Andy has given up on Hillary. I for one am NOT a quitter and will back Hillary to the very end.
After watching the HBO special Recount this weekend, it shows you what happens to people who quit. Without Hillary on the ticket, McBush WILL be the next president, PERIOD!
I'm a Hillary supporter and I am upset that she has been so badly treated so I will vote for McCain, because he didn't treat her badly.
I don't care about McCain's embrace of agents of intolerance and the far right.
I don't care that he is anti-choice.
I don't care about the Supreme court justices he says he will nominate.
I don't care about the misguided policies in Iraq and maybe Iran.
I don't care that he confuses Shia with Sunni and calls Obama inexperienced.
I don't care that he has flip-flopped on the Bush tax cuts.
I could go on and on, but it doesn't matter because I am mad that Hillary was not treated nicely by the Obama campaign and the press. She was my candidate and if she can't win, then no Democrat should.
Repubs know that Obama will be easy to beat.
Obama supporters think the US has changed.
Where have they been?
They are clueless.
If Hillary is not asked to be on the ticket, McCain will win for sure!
Wake up folks! You have lost the goal.
The black Dems have said "The Bro before the Ho"
The white sexist Dems have said;
"The Man before the Bitch."
Hillary didn't have a chance in the Democratic Pary that may have sunk beyond redemption.
Because of this ugly hatred among the Dems, McCain will be our next president.
The time for the "dream ticket" has past. Too many nasty things have been said. The Clintons have gone about this nomination process in an unprofessional way, and the results are there for everyone to see. They assumed the mantle before the first votes were cast, and were shaken to know that another Democrat had the audacity to challenge them for the nomination. Instead of staying on message they've used ad hominem attacks perfected by Repulicans, against Obama, and his followers. The vitriol between the warring supporters will make the healing and coming together all the more difficult. We all want what is best for this country, so out of self-interest we should consider the alternative. Is it worthwhile for us to spite our neighbor and lose our country, just because we nominated the "wrong" Democrat?
Hey 9:24AM -- I do hope you are an Obama staffer with a sense of humor, otherwise your post may be one of the best examples I have ever seen of what is wrong with the political education of my fellow citizens.
Not once have I ever called Hillary or Bill Clinton a racist.
Please do not put words in my mouth.
8:53 The only good thing about your dreary post was that you said you could care less if McCain wins. You have not totatlly succumbed to evil selfishness. Or perhaps you meant to say you could not care less and your mistake was just another indication of your ignorance.
No need to point it out, but you surely must realize that you and everybody else is at the mercy of the government in power. There are any number of ways you and your daughter can be harmed by government policy. We could start with the gas price.
Grow up foolish children! Those of you who will vote McCain instead of Obama if Clinton doesn’t win are either republican trolls or little brats. Wake up fools. You’re “my way or the highway” is so passé.
I was not reading Andy's blog at the time this occurred but am wondering if the Hillary crowd currently whining about how she's been portrayed as a racist and in a sexist manner had any complaints about the following:
"She is [a bitch]. And so am I. Bitches get stuff done. That's why Catholic Schools use nuns instead of priests... At the end of the year you hated those bitches, but you knew the capital of Vermont. So, I'm saying it's not too late Texas and Ohio, bitch is the new black!"
If you will recall, the Clinton campaign made great hay out of the comment from Tina Fey at SNL at a time when she needed all the support she could muster while reeling from 11 consecutive defeats.
Look, the simple fact is it has been a hard campaign. Shit was unfairly lobbed at Hillary AND Barack. It most certainly was not a one-sided affair on the part of the MSM or one campaign against another. But if you are really a Democrat, it's time to address if you are a Democrat because of a cult of personality or because you believe in the principles of the party.
I'm grateful to Andy for today's commentary because it conclusively shows where his fundamental principles lie - not with a specific candidate but with the ideals and ideas of the Democratic Party.
Bravo, Mr. Ostroy.
Wonderful post Andy. Bravura performance. No one will ever again be able to say that you put a preferred candidate over principle.
One thing though: " It started in Iowa, where you were all but certain to win." This is absolutely erroneous. She was never really favored to win Iowa. Even her former strategist, Mike Henry, prepared a prescient memo (which wound up getting him fired) explaining the need for Hillary to forego campaigning in Iowa completely as she would waste a lot of resources there and likely lose to Obama or Edwards.
I'm 74 years old. I'm female. My dream has been to see a female president of these United States. I, too, thought Hillary Clinton was "the dream come true."
However, the facts prove otherwise.
This year, that dream will not come true. It may yet come true for my daughters, grand-daughters, and great-grand-daughters.
I am not so short sighted that I see this Clinton campaign as the "end" of the possibility of a woman becoming president of these United States. Rather I see it as the "beginning" of more and more qualified women, in the future, running for the highest office in the land. Let's face facts. Hillary Clinton is not the only woman now, or in the future, qualified to be in the oval office. Think Sebelius, McCaskill, Boxer, and those many more to come. What we need to ensure, is that like the first Woman Speaker of the House, the first woman president --- is a Democrat.
Again, Bravo, Mr. Ostroy.
We must come together to defeat the Fascists
Obama / Hilary who the fuck cares, just elect a democrat. Dream ticket or not we have got to save our country from the fear mongering military industrialist fascists.
To you Hilary supporters who say you will vote for McCain, you sound like a bunch of spoiled 3 years old who dropped their ice cream cone.
Why would any of us want your candidate if you are going to put yourself above the needs of the country? this in essence is why Hilary has failed, because it is all about her, not about the Country as a whole.
Fuck you Hilary, and your supporters
pieceful warrior: Love your idea of "coming together" FUCK YOU HILLARY AND YOUR SUPPORTERS.
You as most miss the point. It is not because our candidate didn't win. It was because any candidate in our party could be treated so badly by the Party. It has undermined any confidence, pride, and affection for the Demoractic Party. You know how we bleeding heart liberals hate injustice to others. Well, it's happened among us to one of us. That is not acceptable.
And, what is also not acaceptable to me is a president who belongs to a church that preaches hate, violence, and lies -- all coming right from the pulpit to a cheering audience. I cannot vote for Obama. We have no guarantee Obama "woulnd't put himself above the needs of the country" a country which is hated by a group he cherishes.
If McCain makes mistakes it will not be because he's not a patriot.
Never thought it would happen but Ostroy has won the praise of Sidney, Micheal and the other Obama supporters. All he had to do was "diss" Hillary's taste and sensitivity.
Indeed, Hillary supporters: are you citizen-voters, or members of a personality cult? I support Obama now, although I started with Edwards, and frankly none of them are my ideal candidate. Although I slightly favored Obama a few months ago, I would have had no problems at all supporting a Clinton candidacy, although so many of the things that came out of her campaign turned me off, including her dismissal of all of Obama's wins (including the states themselves), her tacit courting of racism in Appalachia, and now this...ugh.
Obviously her comment has in some cases been taken out of context, but the key to her "mis-statement" is in the apology: although she apologized very nicely to the Kennedy's, she didn't mention anything at all about how her statement could have been interpreted as a suggestion that Obama might be assassinated (not to mention how it once again strayed from the facts, and is also not a relevant argument anyway). She had the chance to "clarify" her remarks, and chose to be craven twice instead. It's dreadful, and in extremely poor taste.
Under normal circumstances, this would not be a deal-breaker. And in terms of proposed policies, I would still vote for Clinton over McCain in a heartbeat (should she "steal" the nomination, I still would, albeit grudgingly and with great disillusionment). But more and more, as Ostroy points out, she's demonstrating that perhaps she doesn't have the character and fortitude after all to be the next prez.
On the upside, as 10:33 points out, there are many seemingly capable women waiting in the wings, any one of whom might even get tapped to be VP. And I have to say that if McCaskill were running for prez, I'd vote for her in a heartbeat. One thing that I hope may come out in a future female run for prez is this: hopefully the sexism and misogyny leveled at Hillary is in larger part due to the fact that she's Hillary, rather than that she's a woman in general, which would indicate an (unfair) aversion to this particular woman, rather than women in general for this office.
Finally, 11:10: apparently some vague sense of patriotism is more important than policies, eh? Obama was treated so well by the party with respect to the "bitter" comments, racists in Appalachia, etc.? I don't deny that in some cases Hillary has been treated unfairly, but don't you DARE suggest that reactions against the insulting and foolish things that she's been saying/doing for the last three months are all "unfair." What are we supposed to do, just sit back and take it? Why? Because her ascendency is pre-ordained? No double-standards over in Hillaryland, I see.
hey kids, relax. before you Obamacans get yourselves in a lather....I still think Obama has HUGE problems, and that Hill's the more electable of the two. While I can no longer in good faith personally/mentally "support" her against him, should she somehow pull out the nomination, I can't say I'd be crushed, and, I'd back her unconditionally against McCain. But make no mistake: falling out of love with Hillary does not equate to falling in love with Obama.
It really is a shame that if/when Obama wraps up the nomination that most of the Hillary supporters would go with McCain in the fall. It would show just how entrenched racism is in this country. What kind of idiot would vote for a person who's hot headed, older than the norm, has vowed to continue Bush's policies, and keep us in a senseless war? What kind of idiot would vote against their own interest by voting for someone that "looks" like them.
Are we really that full of hate that we'll vote for more dumbness?? Really, are we?
What is your point Michael. "Bitch is the new black" Remember to get some self esteem we heard "Black is beautiful" and a lot of other phrases to try to bolster the black idenity in the US. Well, women are saying "bitch is beautiful." They are trying to turn the word into a postive. They know that nuns are teachers because they can't be anything else in the Catholic church. As in our society teachers are considered among the "lower class" despite college degrees because women rather than men are more prevalent in the teaching profession. And children do "hate the bitches" and children do "hate their mothers" and most learn as they grow up the value of the disciplining by the nuns and the mothers, and remember the loving care, and love women instead of hating them. But despite their contribution women are still the victim of abuse, sexism, discrimination and hatred. They are not necessarily the NEW black because they have suffered in society as long as the blacks have. Blacks at least now no longer experience the depth of mistreatment that women do. The mistreatment of course inludes, black women who are regularly called "hos" in the rap world and in their community.
Well, they couldn't keep Hillary "pregnant, barefooted and in the kitchen," but she sure can't get above the glass ceiling. Good work, boys.
Ostroy, Ostroy, Ostroy…
You convincingly manage to show how Hillary turned into wishful Killary. You paint her as reckless opportunist who threw away her legacy, and will be just a sad footnote in history.
Then you turn to HER, pandering for money for your foundation. There is no other country in the world, or a place in the history of mankind, where this would not be simply pathological.
What a disappointment your last paragraph.
Andy, after Iowa, when it looked like "the other guy" was going to blow her out of NH and wrap up the nomination, I said
"wait a minute! We don't need another Kerry 2008, a candidate who wowed small audiences, and then went flat as a pancake for the general election."
And (with help from a tear hear and there), Senator Clinton pulled out a thin win in NH.
But the kid continued to roll on barely impeded. Democratic voters couldn't stand Hillary talking about her inevitability and especially "HER EXPERIENCE" - when she hadn't done one damn _remarkable_ thing to OPPOSE BushCo, in 8years of getting paid (by Dem donors) to do so.
It was after her TROUNCING on SuperTuesday that her campaign went COMPLETELY, race-baiting NEGATIVE.
JUST IMAGINE where the Obama campaign would be today, wowing economically disenfranchised WHITE voters in West Virginia and Kentucky, if corporate lawyer Hillary hadn't played the race card all these months.
You do know that Hillary's ROSE LAW firm represented industry "heavy" (bully) clients Tyson, WalMart, and Monsanto, don't you?
You do know that, as the wife of Arkansas Gov. Bill Clinton, she sat on the Board of Directors of WalMart corp. in the 1980s, drawing her Director's pay, as that company went on a ferocious UNION BUSTING, and, even worse, "KEEP WOMEN OUT OF MANAGEMENT" tear, don't you?
Come on, Andy, you can't put two and two together, that WalMart lost that huge gender bias case, not so long after Hillary left the Board of Directors, and that she has NO record of opposing WalMart's exclude women from management policies?
And you only last week figured out that, in appealing to "race issues," Hillary was appealing to the hate, resentment, fear, and loathing currents that lies immediately below eruptions of violence?
No, I'm happy to praise Andy at any time and look forward to his thoughts. Simply because I disagree with some of his opinions/assumtions does not mean that I need or require him to fall in line behind those who feel the need to "diss" Hillary Clinton.
Well, that was an unfortunate response.
You've castigated me and others for "falling in love with a candidate" while you've maintained a mythical high road. Now you say that you've fallen out of love with Clinton but have yet to find amor for Obama. What gives?
C'mon, man. Those of us who are true "Realisticrats" have never fallen in love with a candidate. We recognize that they ALL (Dem or GOP) have flaws which expose them to rejection by certain segments of the voting population. But when push comes to shove, the ultimate goal is to elect Obama or Clinton and NOT John McCain.
I have absolutely no problem with the attempt to use humor as a means of countering negative connotations in words. What I have a problem with is the selective indignance of some people who use perceived slights to make sweeping judgments.
I do not believe Barack Obama is sexist and I do not believe Hillary Clinton (or Bill) is racist. What I do believe is that some of their ardent supporters, and I admit it happens on both sides, mischaracterize comments and blow them so far out of proportion that they take on a life of their own and become justification for those supporters to suspend logic.
What if someone 'RFKs' John McCain, does that mean we get Ron Paul? Unfortunately it took segregationist Governor Wallace to reveal the truth that "there's not a dime's worth of difference between" Republicans and Democrats. The Democrats willingly went along with the War in Iraq, suspension of Habeas Corpus, detaining protesters, banning books like America Deceived (book) from Amazon, stealing private lands (Kelo decision), warrant-less wiretapping and refusing to investigate 9/11 properly. They are both guilty of treason.
Write in Dr. Ron Paul and save this great nation.
First off, all three of these candidates are crooks, as are all politicians at the national level offered up by these "two" crime organizations. Anybody who votes for any of these people is an asshole helping to pound the last nails into this country's coffin. They all have Israeli bar codes stamped on their asses.
And The Hillaroid didn't win NH. It was stolen in the exact same manner that Bush's old man stole the same state in 1988: by somehow miraculously turning an 8-point deficit into a 9-point "victory" overnight. Can't figure out how that happened. Really.
And look at Joe "Jews for Fascism" Lieberman. He won his "independent" race for the Senate in 2006, with his closest opponent getting the EXACT number of votes that his closest challenger received in his previous race, run as a "Democrat."
What do these people have to do to get the tens of millions of members of Boobus Americanus to see the obvious -- that elections at the federal level are completely fixed? Read some history about the 1876 election, the first (known) stolen election. This has only been going on for more than 130 years now, people. I wouldn't want any of the dipshits in this country to start seeing the obvious too quickly.
VERY FUNNY! Your last paragraph leads off of the the preceding article like it was still addressed to Hillary! "On another note we could use your help" sounds like you're declaring you want to headhunt Hillary for your foundation (since her White House drive has tanked and she now has a big space on her dance card).
If Hillary is not asked by Obama to be on the ticket (even if she says no), McCain wins for sure.
Wake up folks. You can not win without Hillary supporters. The base of the Democratic Party is comprised of women.
What is wrong with Obama supporters?
Indeed, what IS wrong with Obama supporters? Please tell me.
What if Clinton is NOT offered the VP spot and still actively campaigns for Obama, telling her supporters to get behind the party's nominee. Will you follow the wishes of your candidate?
Ostroy, it's all fair enough to say you're not in love with Obama, and insist that he has huge problems. Speaking for myself, you get props for articulating what some of the rest of us have recognized and/or been saying for some time: that whatever Hillary's qualities as a candidate in terms of policies and credentials, her cravenness and the practice of "[throwing] as much shit up on the wall as [she] possibly could" went from merely annoying to intolerable. Meanwhile, her ardent supporters are apparently incapable of seeing why people might be upset about these practices, while at the same time tying things to the Obama campaign that are (at best) practiced by a minority of ardent and crass Obama supporters. To this end, Obama's constantly called out for playing "the race card," which is not only not always a legit gripe, but ignores the times Clinton's pulled "the gender card."
At any rate it's past time for partisans on each side to continue this tit for tat identity politics, and work to elect one of these two--legitimately--to office instead of McCain. Hurt feelings and a vague sense that somehow Obama's a racist and/or hates America is no reason to have prolonged and expanded war, the end of Roe v. Wade, and God knows what other horrors. On that point, some of you Clintonites should take after Ostroy.
Lastly: Hillary does not represent all women. Nor does she represent "the" feminist perspective. Get a clue.
All of you are wrong. The three that are running now are all the same. They all belong to the Council of Foreign Relations and they will do what their New World Order bosses tell them to do. Also Obama is bi-sexual and can be blackmailed. I do not think their will be a election. The Moran in office will have another fake attack and declare Martial Law.
I'm new to this blog and read every entry. My head is swimming. There is not one unifying or even convincing theme are entry from anybody. If this reflects the country as a whole we're in deep shit.
you are all talking as if each vote counted and the election itself was not rigged. No matter what happens, we will end up with McCain, or marshall law, or both. Live it up today people, tomorrow is going to be DARK, at least for most of us.
Sorry you feel that way.
Perhaps you could start the unifying with a message for everyone (other than we're in deep shit)?
Is racism good for our country? I don't think so. Is misogyny good for our country? I don't think so. How do we get past these social/cultural barriers?
Barack Obama seeks to transcend the race issue. I am reminded of his magnificent, historical speech responding to the Reverend Wright brouhaha.
Hillary Clinton constantly reminds us of this glass ceiling and keeps telling us how hard it is to break through.
Obama calls for reconciliation, unity, and empowering our better angels so we can see past the barrier and move there.
Clinton's approach is to keep bashing against the barrier and complaining about how unfair it is that the barrier exists in the first place.
I know which attitude appeals to me more. I'm a 50+ year old hard working white woman, and I approve this post.
Surely you never trusted this woman? Have you forgotten her hubby was IMPEACHED. She also used to be a Goldwater republican. Just goes to show you she goes where the power is.
Dear HRC - Are you familiar with the concept of "bowing out gracefully"?
robertsgt40 OMG You're rightl Clinton was impeached -- what did he do?? Hannout with terorrist who bombed NY? Hangout in a church that teaches hate against white people and lies about our government?? Hang out with a crooked real estate guy? Diss a large popuplation of America. Oh, that's right Clinton had sex with a consenting woman and then lied about it,. Lied that's is, he if you don't believe the Jesuit interpretationof sex. And, let's see Hillary was a Republican in her late teenage years. She gob more information and changed about fifty years ago to the Democratic Party.
And how can we hold her hubby's almost twenty year ago action against her when we dare not mention the hate talk out of Michell's mouth about our country.
You might wnat to consider putting first things first.
Welcome to the club! It just takes different times for different people to get here.
As for why Hillary Clinton's language seems so stupid, and why says bluntly what Bill merely hints at, it's because, while smart, she is not first rate. We are used to seeing first rate brainiacs as contenders for the Democratic nomination, and Hillary is a level or two below that. Think back to Legitimate President Bush calling his opponents "those two bozos"; it is language without subtlety. Go even lower and you get someone who speaks bluntly of "catapulting" his propaganda.
So, I think what has happened here is partly that Hillary Clinton has reached her limit. She wouldn't have been very good as president, anyway, and she would have been disastrous as a party leader.
All this talk of the media and Obama supporters trying to "take Hillary down" flies in the face of a single all encompassing fact: In all national polls Ms. Clinton shows a 50% disapproval rating. No one else is taking her down; she was already decisively down before she even entered the race! No one ever has, or ever will, win a national election sporting the kind of negative numbers she always garners.
In spite of her overarching ambition and sense of entitlement, that's the fact, Jack.
George: The "single all encompassing fact" is: Barack Obama aka Barry Obama will not be the next president of the USA because he has too much baggage.
"No oneever has, or ever will, win a national election sporting the kind of negative" baggage Obama has. In spite of the support of the entire black population and the "elite" rich Democrats and his sense of superiority and "it's our turn", he cannot win because of those with whom he is close. That's the fact, George, et al.
George,you also have to remember the people who are giving you all this poll data is the same media that has done everything in their power to distroy the Clinton's for the last 16 years.You can make a poll say and have what ever outcome you want it to,just by asking the right questions.It's easy to get 50% disapproval ratings when your asking 75% republicans,10% democrates 15% independents if they like hillary clinton.And just before you ask them,you remind them of monica and bill.
I just want to say to all those who use the terms "team," "on board," and "the club" when referring to my alleged support of Obama in the wake of my denouncment of her. First of all, my "support" of Obama is no more than it was yesterday. Next, I think it's incredibly divisive and juvenile to refer to these words when discussing candidates. This is not a game. It's serious business when selecting a US president, and this high school bullshit that so many posters here engage in is asinine. And, it makes you sound like you're in some freakin' cult. I may not be on Hillary's "team" anymore, but I sure as hell don't want to be on yours either.
at 11:45 AM
"if you bothered to check, ostroy puts that paragraph at the end of virtually every thing he writes."
Ah, that must make it perfectly fine then. Just as your picking your nose every time you drive makes it perfectly all right, perhaps delicious.
Notice, I did not call you asshole.
Hillary destroyed the Dems chances awhile ago. And likening Kennedy's assassination to this June and Obama was the nail in her and the Dems coffin. President McCain, if he is allowed. President Bush, if we never get to the elections.
I Vote for Jesus Christ: The whole entire human population has forgotten Gods Commandments. Put no other Gods before me! and Love thy neighbor!
Please Jesus come soon, and shake the world
Maybe so, but my previous comment referred solely to the electability of Ms. Clinton, and I stand by it whole heartedly. Obama has never been my candidate of choice, but for my money Clinton has always been the single least impressive of all the democratic hopefuls.
The word that comes to mind is- unprincipled. On numerous occasions she has cast votes on issues of utmost importance (including her enabling of Bush's war ambitions) with regard only for her own potential political gain, with no concern for what might be best for the nation. Further, she has accepted no responsibility for those votes, nor has she offered a principled explanation for them.
As for your assessment of who constitutes the Obama base, you're quite mistaken. The moneyed Democrat "elite" (DLC) began this campaign, nearly to a person, in the Clinton camp and the vast majority of her funds have come from wealthy donors. Obama, on the other hand, has overwhelmed her by raking in many, many millions in smaller increments. This inability to compete financially, coupled with an inability to refrain from making the sort of polarizing and outrageous statements that even a political novice would understand to be counterproductive will result in her defeat.
I did a search of the responses to your column looking for the words, "team", "on board" and "club" in reference to Obama. Only one person used any of the terms you mention and, in fact, used only one of them - "club". You may be confusing those who respond to your blog with those who read the column at The Huffington Post.
As for incredibly divisive and juvenile, is the term "club" any moreso than "kool-aid" or "Obamacans" or stating definitively without real evidence that someone is "in love" with a candidate while you are not (only later to state yourself that you were, in fact, in love with your candidate)? Is equating only the Obama supporters with "the high school bullshit" that goes on around here in any way fair, accurate or productive?
I sincerely believed that your latest blog entry indicated your allegiance lies with first principles, specifically those of the Democratic Party. With your two responses in the comments section I've begun to wonder if you are in the midst of some sort of grieving period causing you to irrationally lash out. If so, please take a couple of days off. Seems to me you'd serve your readers and yourself if you did.
George -- Do you live under a rock? Obama's money has come from George Soros, the members of MOVEON.com and probably the corporate company of MSNBC. Since it's run by GM and engaged in dealing with the enemy, McCain would be bad for business. You want to talk principle????
MICHAEL -- I hope this last dreary post of yours is your signal that you are so upset with Ostroy's "service" to his readers, that we will no longer have to scan over your ENDLESS STUPID comments.
Especially tiresome is your holier-than-thou-old granny-advice. You take a rest.
You have no idea how much you make me laugh, you masochist.
Well we all know by now Michael is the NEW Sydney.
and finally,THE REAL MICHEAL steps forward OR SIDNEY,he's under 3 different names so he can say things like the clintons are racist and then claim he never said any such thing
I'm heartily sick of the sour grapes partisanship that has been pretty much whipped up by corporate media punditry.
A fight, an exciting contest - that's about all the broadcasters are interested in & if it doesn't exist, create it.
Here are some words from the marvelous Granny D - this is what I keep going back to to remind myself what is important....
**...Yes, I hear so many people say that it doesn't matter, that whoever is elected will do as they please, that life doesn't get better when we elect different people.
Americans are spoiled into expecting instant gratification. An election is not a deliverance, it is a small ratcheting up of the system, bringing it closer to our values if we are lucky. It is imperfect and almost invisible in its effect. We vote, we build on that success, we vote again, we build on that, we vote again. Democracy is hard work, and the work of a lifetime.
The powerful elite would have you believe that voting doesn't matter: they don't mind you leaving it all for them to decide.
But it is your world, not theirs. It is your life, and you mustn't let them steal it. ...**
Whoever gets the nomination, I'm voting "D" this Fall - I only hope it's not too late.
Check out the latest from Mark Crispin Miller if you want a reality check on just how 'inevitable' a Democratic win this Nov. really is.....
My name is Michael. I live in Texas. I worked for Bill Clinton in the 90s. Despite your feeble protestations otherwise I have never called or thought for a moment that the Clintons are racists.
And though I take it as a compliment, I am not Sidney.
Gotcha 1:41. Only Sidney himself would consider it a compliment to be mistaken for Sidney. Nice try, Sid.
My primary vote went to Obama and I hope I will get to vote for him in the general election. But while Hillary no doubt slipped in her reference to RFK, it is very clear that she was comparing herself and her campaign to RFK (albeit in a bogus self-serving way) and not implying that her fortunes would change (as did the ultimate looser to Nixon, Humphrey, to whom she would never want to be compared) if her opponent were killed. The idea she was trying to plant (again in an offensive analogy) is that if everyone thinks RFK would have won the nomination while he was behind in the delegate count in June at the time of his death, then why can't she win it. For this to be the reason to drop support for her seems to be an excuse. But hey we'll take it, cause we need your vote!
Dear Hillary, we might take that "assassinate" comment lightly if it wasn't you. Remember all the personal bodyguards that have turned up dead, they even created a new word for it called "Arkancide". Remember Vince Foster? Ron Foster? Little Mary Mahoney? How about those little boys Ives and Henry? We can't forget James Milan who lost his head, by natural causes???? Of course, Barry Seal had to die. Who was that girl that hand signed Bill's speeches, why did she have to die. Good luck, Bitch.
8:33 Are you saying that Hillary and Bill who were constantly in the public eye and under scrutiny are clever enough to have murdered the eight you mention (and you hint there were others) without ever getting caught or at least charged and brought to trial? Did Hillary and Bill put on brunette wigs, false noses and blacked out a tooth or two, and go throw those boys under the train? If they were so good at murder how is it they let Monica and Paula "off the hook" and allow them to live and cause so much trouble.
I wonder why a "Scott McClellan" type has not come forward during all these elapsed years to expose them in a best seller for big bucks?
According to you, the "bitch" has had phenomenal luck evading the law even though the eyes of Arkansas were upon her and Bill.
Wow, how depressing to read these comments. The name-calling, the anger, the misinformation.
Andy, Hillary lost me years ago with her Iraq War vote. I was hoping she would stand on principle, that she would be the fighter she has been claiming to be in recent months--and that she would use the bully pulpit that was uniquely hers to speak out on the war. She didn't because she wanted to appear macho for her intended presidential run. I have been unable to see anything she has done or said since as anything but thoroughly calculated and for her own ends. Her RFK remarks finally removed your blinders. For those that see nothing wrong with her RFK reference, please note that it came after several weeks of her reiterating over and over again, "I'm staying in the race because anything can happen!" I found it a disturbing statement because the only thing that came to mind was an untimely demise for Obama, The RFK comment clinched the inference for many of us. I was not enthusiatic about Obama at first. I was for Dodds then Edwards, but reading about Obama's legislative records in Illinois and the Senate, reading commentary by his old roomates and classmates, watching him pursue the high road more than any politician in my lifetime, reading his nuanced speech on rascism, awestruck by his smartly run campaign and pleased with his genuinely populist approach, I have come to feel passionately enthusiastic about having this intelligent, thoughtful, new thinker in the White House. I hope you will join us when you have had a chance to recover from your disappointment.
That was one of the more disgusting and horrific litanies of propaganda and outright lies leveled against a political figure I've seen in a long time.
Very nicely done.
What a weird juxtaposition of perspectives.
8:33 discusses murder freely and with what appears to be pleasure while relishing the idea that the Clintons are guilty.
Then 9:51 feels that Hillary's mentioning, while giving her condolences to Ted Kennedy's family, the death of his brother by assassination is so disgusting and distasteful that she can no longer support Hillary.
The unifying link between the two commentaries is the need by some to distort, twist and even lie about the Clintons in order to hurt them. The possibility of the assassination of either Hillary or Obama, as well as all presidential candidates, has been a fact that was dealt with early on by super extra security. Do some superstitiously think that mentioning it will make it so?
what 8:33 said is on blog after blog on the Internet with far more details and accusation Check it out on Google. There's a hideous campaign of some kind spreading this garbage.
I thought Obama was at his "populist" best when he gave his "bitter" speech. I also like the high road he took during the twenty years he listened to Wright trash American and its citizens. I have to point out to another poster that "the name-calling, the anger and the misinformation" out of Wright's mouth and cheered by his congregtions just can't be topped on this blog or anywhere else. Wright's the champ.
I mentioned just a couple of the thousands of people that Hillary had a hand in on the killing. Ask yourself, how many business associates do I know who have died in violent deaths? Not many. Maybe, one or two, at most. Hillary has lost a bunch of bodyguards:
Major William S. Barkley Jr.
Captain Scott J. Reynolds
Sgt. Brian Hanley
Sgt. Tim Sabel
Major General William Robertson
Col. William Densberger
Col. Robert Kelly
Spec. Gary Rhodes
Ironic, don't you think? I would like to make a correction from my 8:33 comment, I meant Ron Brown, not Ron Foster. Curious that Ron Brown died from a 45 caliber bullet into his skull at close range after his plane crash. Ron Brown had survived the crash with light injuries. Stewardess Sgt Shelly Kelly also survived the crash with minor scratchs and bruises she was executed on the helicopter ride to safety with a severed femoral artery, officially they said a broken neck. Clinton ordered all bodies cremated immediately.
Hillary was also named by the FBI investigation into JFK Jr's murder, as a co-conspirator and as the motive. John-John was planning a run for US Senator against Hillary, she wouldn't have stood a chance. It would have been the end of the Bush-Clinton crime family's dynasty.
The conspirators were as follows, "The Division 4 team member told us “The meeting to discuss the murder occurred in the White House oval office. The subjects named in the report who participated in ordering the murder of John Fitzgerald Kennedy, Jr. were President Clinton and his wife Hillary--both in the room, former Attorney General Janet Reno--also in the room and who JFK Jr. had publicly called to task for her role in Waco and Ruby Ridge operations, FBI Director Louis Freeh--in the room, and former President George H. W. Bush, Lawrence Rockefeller (now deceased), and three Inner Circle Council of Thirteen members who were all teleconferenced into the oval office discussion via secure White House phone lines.“ This was corroborated by Secret Sevice logs and testimony.
I have read the suppressed FBI Investigation Reports and they clearly name the 2 assassins (Mossad) and all people involved. Its hard to hide when you travel in black limosines with teams of Secret Service agents. They tend to forget these agents have eyes and ears, and are not all traitorous murderers.
I too, have heard about the rumours of murder and drug running in Mena, Arkansas. Any journalist investigating these allegations or the murder of the two little boys who stumbled upon a drug drop, were found dead. One witness to the murder had his head chopped off, Arkansas officials ruled that he had died of natural causes. A lot of Bill's girlfriends, end up pregnant and dead. Bill also said that Hillary is a dyke.
I believe Sarah indicated very early in her response that she stopped supporting Hillary Clinton when the Senator voted to authorize the war in Iraq, not because of Clinton's comments regarding the assassination of RFK - that was Mr. Ostroy.
At that point, your juxtaposition falls apart as there's no reason to believe Andy or Sarah have any "need" to inflict "harm" in any way upon the Clintons.
The conspiracy theorists who are running amok the last 12 hours or so are a different animal and I'm hoping Andy will do with their comments as most do with cases of rabid wildlife...
I hope you will all join me in giving thanks to the powers that be for Michael, who is this blog's arbiter of
TRUTH, REASON AND
THE AMERICAN WAY.
I read the rumors all over the web and I heard in high places where I hang out, that Obama is Superman and has spent his life helping the poor and helpless and defending what's right; I'm sure now that he's probably heard about the Clinton Crime Family, he will surely put them behind bars and soar to his rightful place as President.
I don't think it is possible to talk with people who have their hands over their ears. Maybe another day.
Clearly Sarah is Michael. Michael is me. So Sarah must be me. Bklyn, so I've heard, is also me. Meanwhile, anonymous is anonymous.
The mind boggles...
Dems, take heart...
The Blogging Caesar at electionprojection.com, a conservative prognosticator who has nailed the last two elections, now has Barack Obama at 293 electoral votes (McCain has 245) with virtually all trends going in his direction.
Today's news is Hillary is beating McCain in all the polls. McCain is beating Obama.
Lanny Davis was on the talk shows today spreading the good news about Hillary's winning over McCain in the Gallop Pole and his optimism about the outcome of the 31st meeting. Since Obama wouldn't agree to a re-vote in Florida and Michigan, Davis feels the case for counting the votes as they were is good. Obama apparently was afraid to risk at re-vote and face off fair and square. And, now he's going to fight to see that Hillary doesn't get all her votes. He's not real honorable or confident.
Oh for crying out loud. Give the baby her bottle!
So the Gallup and Pew polls showing Obama beating McCain in national polling don't count?
I guess you also believe the nonsense that Clinton leads in votes cast, too...
Lanny Davis can pontificate all he wants. The only problem for him is that his opinion doesn't count for much since he's not on the rules committee nor is he a lawyer for the DNC - who put out a paper yesterday stating that the party rules require the two states lose at least half of their convention delegates.
Let's simplify this:
1. The polls have varied in significant ways so far, but nearly every time they have either Dem beating McCain, with trends favoring both Hillary and Barack (Barack does much better in the West, Upper Midwest, and South; Hillary does much better in Appalachia and the Rustbelt). Let's focus on keeping those trends in the Dems' favor, though they are DIFFERENT paths depending on the nominee.
2. The Obama campaign is being overly cautious in their approach to MI and FL, to the extent that this could be used against them in the general. However, the Clinton campaign is also being opportunistic and hypocritical, since they supported stripping these delegates until it became clear they needed them.
3. Even if you count MI and FL as is (assuming you give "uncommitted" votes in full or part to Obama), Clinton does not lead in either delegates OR the popular vote. These are not legit rationales to support her.
4. That said, it's within the party rules and perfectly legit for the superdelegates to move for her to give her the nomination.
5. Regarding this thread: not all Obama supporters are the same person. Not all "anonymous" Clinton supporters are the same person. The conspiracy theorist(s) here are just spouting the usual nonsense. They should probably be ignored, because while the rest of the Obama supporters here have listed reasons for their dislike of Clinton (mainly regarding tactics or disingenuous arguments), none have come close to saying she's an accomplice to murder.
A new shock out of Obama's Trinity Church. The new pastor whom Obama has praised, introduced an old friend of Obama, Father Micheal Pflegher, who gave a sermon trashing Hillary and all white people whose ancestors had slaves. The accusation is that white people living today are guilty because they benefit today from their white ancestors owning slaves; and, until the "guilty" whites give up their wealth, 401Ks, property, and privilege, which they enjoy because of their ancestors, they are as guilty as their forebears for slavery and segregation. Pflegher got a standing ovation.
Then he trashed and mocked Hillary. He impersonated her. He burlesqued her crying while "she" said she should be president because she is entitlted. "Boo Hoo. I'm white. I'm entitled. This black man is stealing it away from me," Again the congregation went crazy with appreciation. Screaming, arms waving, laughing, applauding and delighted with the preacher.
Obama cannot win the general.
You know, if your pastor, whom you have known and loved for years has had his long and distinguished career destroyed by an endless loup of a couple of soundbites on national television, and if you have watched someone take the low road against a fellow congregant whom you know and like, well, I suspect there might be a bit of anger and bitterness in you that would then make you laugh and applaud at a comic mocking of the person whom you see as the cause of such unfair treatment of people you know well. Seems like a very normal human reaction under the circumstances.
Sure, Sarah, and since a "someone" has "taken the low road against a fellow congregant whom you know and like", it is only natural to gather in a Chrisitan Church to express the anger at that offense by screaming hatred for every white person who is living or dead for the past three hundred years. That's only human nature and natural. BTW Father Phlagher was also a member of Obama's campaign until he left recently so he is a real friend who naturally stands up for Obama against white people.
And - hey - what are a few sermons spewing hatred, lies and condemnation got to do with electing a person connected to the source of those sermons to the most powerful office in the world?
Expectedly, Obama immediately denounced the commentary.
To his credit Father Pfleger has apologized specifically for his words, specifically noted that what he did was incosistent with the message of his candidate and specifically apologized to the offended party (Senator Clinton).
Not forgiving the repentant who recognizes and then apologizes for his or her misdeeds is truly the hateful act.
I was not offended by Father Pfleger's sermon because of my white heritage but because it was ignorant and juvenile coming from a person who should know better. That he has recognized his mistake, apologized and asked for forgiveness should be all that a Christian needs in order to forgive.
Michael we're all so glad you keep your place by your computer during the entire day so you can keep us aware of y our view of things after every commentary. That used to be Sidney's duty, but maybe he got a job. Thanks for replacing him.
You have pointed out Obama's problem. Over and over again one of his nearest and dearest who are "ignorant and juvenile" and "who should know better." say some horrific things. Obama has no sense of damage control or choosing his associates wisely.
Of course we have no guarantee the repentant is serious about being sorry. We'll see what his next comments reveal. And, we've heard not a word from the thousands in the congregation who agreed with him.
I think those of his faith require penance after confessing and apologizing. Can you set us straight about his penance?
Sarcasm is the pathetic refuge of those with no argument.
Associate "eruptions" are not the sole province of the Obama campaign and you would be better served if you took at look at the American political landscape through a much larger lens than simply that of race.
I have no idea nor do I care what penance the Father should make. That's between he and God and is none of your or my business.
"And a foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."
The issue is not "race" but "ideology". Americans should forfeit their money and redistribute it so blacks can be compensated for slavery in the past. That's called communism. That's what Pflegher proposed.
And since when has "race" not been under the "big lens" of scrutiny? Ask Imus and others who have been sued for discrimination.
The Father does not make the penance - the penitent/offender does. And this is correct: "Thats between HIM and God."
Get off the computer and take some courses in logic and grammar. You could also use a charm school visit.
Your miconception of the relationship between the Father and the penitent, is between you and Him/Her.
Do you care to try and explain how your Emerson quote is even remotely germane to the conversation?
I understand you want to claim the words spoken by others and disavowed by Obama as his own. But if you truly appreciate logic you understand that this is disingenuous to the core.
I suggested that you look through a wider lens instead of focusing on a single subject (race). I did not suggest that race is not a part of the political or cultural landscape. Nice attempt at spin.
Regarding penitence, "The Father" in question is Father Pfleger, doofus. Go read again what I wrote and try paying attention next time.
BTW, if you want to play the petty grammar/spelling game, the word is "misconception".
As for charm school, being cussed and dismissed by anons started LONG before I returned in kind. Hop on down from your high horse.
The Emerson quote is a reminder to you, should you grasp it, of your stupidly consistent allegiance to the failing candidate of your choice and your consistently repetitious reasons for supporting him.
Your other remarks are too unsound to respond to.
Not once was Pfleger referred to as Father Pfleger in either email. Good writing requires the use of clear antecedents.
I admit I made a typo. I'll follow the advice I gave to you and take a typing course. It's been difficult typing without training.
I assure you there is no "game" going on. I will never read or respond to another of your - comments.
By all means blame your own shortcomings on provocation by others.
Do you have a damn clue what Transcendentalist philosphy is? I'm posting at an avowedly Clintonista website. I used to work for the Clintons. Unlike most anons here I have stated that I am willing to support the eventual nominee of the party.
Your earlier quote is the quintessential statement by Emerson in his quest for all of us to avoid conformity and FALSE consistency. It's clear you have no idea what you are talking about.
If my comments are to unsound for you to respond, why the hell did you do so? You reveal yourself a fool.
Check the 10:38 comment I made. Father Pfleger is mentioned by name. Don't blame your error on me.
Also, you did not advise me to go to typing school. You attempted to insult me by suggesting I go to charm school and learn the rules of grammar.
If you had gone to charm school yourself you may have been taught if you want to make a suggestion of someone that you are far more likely to achieve the result you wish via flattery (sugar) than via insult (vinegar).
As for your pledge not to respond to me in the future, that's clearly your choice. If you care to do so again in the future, I'm fine with it and hope the discussion will be more cordial.
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