The Ostroy Report

The Ostroy Report is a fresh, aggressive voice for Democrats and a watchdog of the GOP/Tea Party. We support President Obama and the Democratic agenda and seek to preserve the Senate majority while taking back the House. But we're also not afraid to criticize the left when necessary.

Tuesday, June 20, 2006

The Repugs Would Swift-Boat Jesus if he Came Out Against the Iraq War


Now that his legal troubles are behind him, President Bush's chief political operative Karl Rove is back commandeering his campaign Swift Boat. As usual, his attacks are targeted to true patriotic American veterans who served their country--people like Rep. John Murtha (D-PA) and Sen. John Kerry (D-MA)--while Rove and his chickenhawk pals in the GOP managed to avoid serving at all. And with the Iraq war spiraling out of control, and a movement by some Democrats to push for a troop withdrawal, Rove's attacks have intensified while he sits on his "big, fat backside," according to Murtha, while our soldiers are dying.

Used to be, the most patriotic thing one could do was enlist in the military to serve and defend his or her country. That's what Kerry and Murtha have done. But under the Bushevik monarchy, war and military service have been shamefully politicized. You're a patriot only if you agree with them. And they'll crucify you if you don't, regardless of how courageously and honorably you've served your country; worse, regardless if they haven't. I cannot think of a more despicable act by a government than to dishonor, exploit and vilify its war heroes purely for political purposes.

John Kerry enlisted for not one, but two tours of duty in Vietnam; requested command of a Swift Boat down the Mekong Delta, one of the most dangerous missions one could assume; and won five medals in the process. He is a hero. He served our country. He bled in battle. And he more than any GOP chickenhawk has the right to speak out on the horrors of war.

Murtha in particular is, by any benchmark, untouchable when it comes to matters of military and national defense. Up until the Fall of '05, when he introduced his controversial troop draw-down resolution, he was perhaps the most highly respected defense expert in Congress. A hawkish Democrat war hero with a highly decorated 37-year career in the U.S. Marine Corps. He volunteered for Vietnam in '66-'67 and received two Purple Hearts and a Bronze Star with Combat "V". Retired from the Marine Corps Reserve as a colonel in 1990. Awarded the Navy Distinguished Service Medal by the Marine Corps Commandant when he retired. Well-respected by both parties for his first-hand knowledge of military and defense issues, of which he has dutifully served and advised both Republican and Democratic presidents. One of the most effective advocates for a strong national defense. A ranking member and former chairman of the Defense Appropriations Subcommittee. He was an early key Bush ally on the Iraq war, serves as a de facto spokesman for the Pentagon, and has very close relationships with many top generals. Rove should be jailed for his attacks on such a true American patriot and hero. It's downright treasonous.

But Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice and Rove's political legacies are inextricably tied to the Iraq war, and they will chew up and spit out anyone or anything that threatens their deception and propaganda campaign. I bet if Jesus Christ were alive today, and he came out against the war, he'd be Swift-Boated so fast his almighty head would spin. I can hear Rove & Company now:

"Hey, who's this Jesus guy, and what the hell does he know about war? He's a total fraud. A pawn of the liberal media. A long-haired pacifist freak who had sex with his prostitute mother. A Jew."

In fact, with his feed the poor and love thy neighbor teachings, Jesus would be Swift-Boated by these conservative thugs simply for being, well, Jesus.

109 Comments:

  • At 12:19 PM, Blogger All_I_Can_Stands said…

    Andy,

    From one who has followed your blog for some time now I have observed that you are moving in a distinctive new direction. The intelligence and entertainment value of your posts have taken a serious hit while the bitter and irrational elements seem to have taken over. It's your blog, but just thought I would pass it along that you are not doing yourself or your side any favors going down this path. My 2 cents. Take it or leave it.

    I'm predicting either no response, or a response with the word 'pal' in it.

    AICS

     
  • At 1:09 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    "...Murtha in particular is, by any benchmark, untouchable when it comes to matters of military and national defense..."

    thanks for proving Ann Coulter correct. The exact point Ann was making when highlighting the witches of east brunswick was the liberal attempt to criticize Bush via untouchable proxies. According to liberals, Murtha can accuse US Marines of "cold blooded murder" without giving these Marines a chance for a trail. Guilty without a trial because Murtha is "by any benchmark, untouchable"

    YOU LIBERALS MAKE IT TOO EASY

     
  • At 1:12 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Democrats believe in Jesus only when they can use His name to criticize republicans.

    -DMH

     
  • At 1:15 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    How many posts until a liberal starts name calling?

    libs: Try conducting yourselves in an intelligent fashion.

     
  • At 1:32 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    I think the obvious point being made is that Murtha was a highly credible military-defense expert, by Bush and the right, until he stopped supporting this bullshit war. So according to the right, you're only a true patriotic who stands by the military and country IF you just happen to agree with everything these a-holes in the White House do and say. When he agrees with you he's right, when he disagrees, he's wrong and unpatriotic? Is this the kind of Democracy we're fighting for over in Iraq?

     
  • At 1:35 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    hey anon, how about a civility lecture for your right wing fanatic friends who've been sloping up this board with juvenile trash these past few days?

     
  • At 1:38 PM, Blogger All_I_Can_Stands said…

    DMH - Thanks for the identifier. I wish all anonymous commenters would do that.

    I also think your point is often true. Funny, I have not heard much of an outcry from the left at the "godless" label.

     
  • At 2:48 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    I believe that whether Murtha agrees with the right or left - US Marines deserve a fair trial before Murtha declares they are guilty of "cold-blooded murder". For this injustice, Murtha is not untouchable - he is wrong.

    Does anyone disagree with only this point? I'm not looking to be called a hick, jerk, neocon, stupid, etc... for my opinion - I'm just trying to find a shred of friendly common ground between the left and right.

    -DMH

     
  • At 2:52 PM, Blogger Joe Smoe: American Citizen said…

    The intelligence and entertainment value of your posts have taken a serious hit while the bitter and irrational elements seem to have taken over.

    Come on SpinachBoy!!! Since BUSH'S BS war in IRaq has started to go south and everything that your FUHRER ie Bush says has been proven WRONG or a LIE everyone that questions this Cluster or your leaders failed record is a shrill and Irrational LIBERAL...right?? Rest assured that if this lie based debacle was going well that you and the rest of the GOP CHICKENHAWKS would be beating us over the head with it and questioning our patriotism.

    I KNOW...I KNOW...THE MSM refuses to report all the good news coming out of BUSH"S MESS.

     
  • At 2:52 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    I would have to say that a few of the people who posted for this particular point has really missed the mark completely. In my view, in this particular matter you are dead on. Jesus was neither republican nor democrat but, unlike the previous post both side use or play the Jesus card to criticize each other. It is not that Jesus was this all time nice guy who never wanted war cause in the end time He, Jesus, will come back, the Lion of the tribe Judah and do away with this wicked and corrupt system of things that we have now and there will be no more nations since He will bring judgment on the "Nations", all Nations, including ours. But back to the point at hand, yes if Jesus was alive today and you did not know who he was but say he garnared a lot of attention and multitudes started listening to him and headed it, yes, the immediate public crucifiction and assassination of his character would begin. That is exactly what happened to him during his days as a human on this Earth so long ago. He was vilified by the religious establishment who conferred with the state to have him killed. No, they would not conspire to throw him over a cliff today but he would be called a traitor, that he hates America, and he should go back to where he came from, a commie, and some other not so nice names. This would come from the same people who profess to love him above all else but they in fact would be putting country (america) and man (Bush) before God in fact worshipping them (Bush and country). They might not see it that way but that is exactly how Satan works. He uses pride, nationalism, etc., anything close to you to blind you so that you will blindly follow leaders into the pit. It's not that Bush is bad, no, but one can be sincere yet very wrong at the same time. Like, Saul on the road to Damascus. He thought he was doing the right thing in persecuting Christians. Some people have a zeal for God but may not have accurate knowledge. That can be very dangerous in the hands of the wrong person. But that is the greater point of the article. The whole thing is very ironic. The Sadducee and the Pharisees told Jesus that we know who our Father is but Jesus told them that they are of their father the Devil. For that they were very angry and wanted him dead. Again, the same people who profess love of God the father, hated the son cause of self-righeousness and pride.

    One can read the bible now and see how bad the religious elements were at that time, but what if you were living back then in that time chances are you would be with the same religous elements who would want Jesus crucified cause he did not preach war at the time so that the Romans could be defeated in other words He did not teach them what they wanted to hear. If today Jesus would say that our great nation would be judged and destroyed with all of the other nations cause this was not the way it was suspposed to be and that it is really Satan that controls all of this people would have him jailed. But according to the bible

    "The whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one."

    "The one called Devil and Satan . . . is misleading the entire inhabited earth.

    If you knew exactly what the beast really represents and who and what is behind it then you can see why love of country, worship of it really, is not quite christian since you would be worshipping that which gave the beast its power

    "They worshiped the dragon, because he gave his authority to the beast, and they worshiped the beast, saying, "Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with him?"

    So just by reading that verse almost all of the entire earth is under Satan's control but they don't know it. Talk about a conspiricy theory eh and I thought the Matix was cool. It got nothing on the bible ;-).

    Let the Bible interpret what the beast is. Read Daniel chapter 7 and see. So the beast in not really the anti-christ nor the holy roman empire and all of that. It is something near and dear to a lot of people and they have flags to represent them.

    We are advised to put on the entire armor of God so we can see thru his deceit but there are cracks in the armor it is called nationalism for one "which amounts to a kind of worship of one's country in a sense that one is willing to die for it and for which Satan will use against you be you Christian, Jew or Islam. Satan blinds them all. Also, with the worshipping of men (world leaders). But the bible tells us to not put our trust or salvation in earthly man for in him no salvation belongs. That is why God is going to do away with human rulers "the Nations", all of them. There will be a new heaven and a new earth. So no more bounderies of Nations based on stubborn pride and nationalism. I know it is hard to believe cause we are so use to this system, what we know today. Like in the Matrix, there will be those who, Christians, Jews, Moslems, will fight for the very system, under Satan's control, that they say they want to get rid of but they will fight to protect it. The Matrix has very wonder symbolisms in it as well.

    Was Jesus again war, no since He will be the one waging a war against Satan and the Nations (yes unfortunitely ours may be included, if it will be fought in our time). Do you really think that men in high places want to see this system end and their prestige, power come to an end? Lets be for real here. Read revelation and find out what the answer to that question is.

    The way things are going now we might not have to wait too long before we, as a nation, implode from within or explode from external forces or maybe both at the same time. I am an American and I live here and no, I dont want to see our Nation fall, well not in my lifetime, since all superpowers do eventually fall. Jesus said that whomsoever sould try to save his life will lose it. How does that apply to us. It seems that the thing that we are doing now are used to try to extend our status, or power. Nothing wrong with that but the way we are doing it now is a very big risk to all of us in the end. One cannot fight endless wars and come out on top in time. We dont have the money nor the resources to do so. Look at what happened to the Soviets. We helpled in that by the way. Could Karma be coming back around this time. Just something to think about.

     
  • At 2:58 PM, Anonymous i on the ball patriot said…

    Which is dumber?
    Believing in imaginary figures in the sky, or that the two party system is real?
    Get a life!

     
  • At 3:22 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Ostroy,
    Are you not a CEO for a marketing company that has big name companies like Disney, the Sharper Image, etc..??

    Does that make you part of 'the rich' that liberals love to hate? Did you get money back from Bush's tax cut? If so, did you give it all away to a homeless person or organization? Do you believe helping others should require other people's money, or do you put your money where your mouth is?

    Sincerely,
    Interested

     
  • At 3:41 PM, Blogger THE RIGHT WING AGENDA said…

    Does that make you part of 'the rich' that liberals love to hate? Did you get money back from Bush's tax cut? If so, did you give it all away to a homeless person or organization? Do you believe helping others should require other people's money, or do you put your money where your mouth is?

    Sincerely,
    Interested

    I recieved a tax cut and am making killer profits from my Haliburton stock and would greatly appreciate if you and other Brainwashed members of the Red States would fall for the bait and switch and sign up to fight in Iraq. As that even though the war maybe going badly we, meaning me and the rest of the well heeled and well invested need you and the rest of the Underclasses to fight for us and keep the lid on that mess for the time being until I can cash out at a substantial profit.

    Thank you!

    Also, since there seems to be quite the Religious discussion here I have always wondered: If Jesus was a member of the GOP who would he Kill to further the GOP cause???Just wondering.

    Thurston Howell III

     
  • At 4:11 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    "Thurston",
    I take your no answer as acknowledgement that like Ostroy, you prefer helping 'the poor' when it involves other peoples hard-earned money.
    My bet is that you believe that anyone who earns more money than you somehow stole or does not deserve their money.
    Why are you so jealous of people richer than you? Could it possibly be that you need to redirect the anger caused by your poor decision making on to anyone other than yourself?

     
  • At 4:48 PM, Blogger THE RIGHT WING AGENDA said…

    Anonymous said...
    "Thurston",

    Why are you so jealous of people richer than you? Could it possibly be that you need to redirect the anger caused by your poor decision making on to anyone other than yourself?

    4:11 PM

    The posts by you no name lower class Help gets ever so tiresome.

    I have no problem with tax cuts as long as I and the rest of the boys at the Country Club get ours. I mean the deficit maybe through the roof and the war costing $6Billion Dollars a month, but those Tax Cuts must go through. Besides it will be you and the rest of the LOWER CLASSES that will pay the bill.

    Lost your Middle Class job...itgot shipped overseas or did an Illegal take it??? No problem GW needs a few bodies for Cannon Fodder. Make the right chioce ANON Red State Citizen and see your recruiter for me.

    Thurston Howell III

     
  • At 5:04 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Lost your middle class job?
    was your job shipped overseas?
    did an illegal take your job?

    If so, You must be a liberal. Gone are the days when responsibility for your decision making was your problem. Today's liberal pushing that responsiblity off your shoulders and on to the government.

    Did you ignore the hurricane warnings to leave your city until a 12 foot wall of water came knocking on your door? if so, you must be a liberal. Don't worry, it's not your fault you ignored the warnings. Blame Bush.

    Did you skip high school or college to join the local union for that $9 per hour job 10 years ago only to earn $12 per hour today? If so, keep paying those union fees that go into liberal organizations fighting to give your job to illegal aliens.

    Having problems making ends meet? Don't want to try giving up some 'necessities' like your car, your tv, and your cellphone? You don't have to. The liberal agenda will take money from others and give it to you - for free!

    Think high gas prices are not based on supply and demand? You don't need to! Your government sponsored indoctrination has taught you enough to believe in conspiracy theories and pulling that democratic lever.

    Think you can't vote because you are illegal? In the words of many Democrats, "You don't need to be registered to vote, to vote"

    vote Quimby

     
  • At 5:16 PM, Blogger THE RIGHT WING AGENDA said…

    Better yet did you really think that Bush was a GODLY man and would never send Americas sons and Daughters to war over Lies and rigged intel??? Sorry you must be an uninformed lower class GOP Dupe.

    Thought Bush was a real Fiscal conservative that would balance the budget and rein in spending..Little did you know that your Beloved CEO prez ran America into the ground like he did all his businesses before being Idiot in Chief...sorry that deficit and War is YOUR FAULT America,because of all the bad Chioces that you made...first one being electing GW.

    Now it is time for me to collect my Haliburton dividend and for you to fight, die and pay for this war and Deficit...I mean it is all due to YOUR BAD CHOICES??

    Thurston Howell III

     
  • At 6:06 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    If only Gore was elected President, the hurricanes would have never happened.

    Kids would still be flying kites in the streets of Baghdad

    the national debt would be a national surplus.

    social security would be safe forever

    God would be off every dollar bill, replaced with Stalin and Bill Clinton

    Unemployment would be 0.0%, minimum wage would be $100.00/hr

    OBL would be attacking American interests without response

    oh, I long for a Gore presidency

     
  • At 6:10 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    IN STALIN WE TRUST!

     
  • At 6:29 PM, Blogger Joe Smoe: American Citizen said…

    Anonymous said...
    IN STALIN WE TRUST!

    Is that the best you can do???? Typical RIGHT WINGNUT response when you have nothing that is factually based to rebut with you go to the ABSURD. Must be that "NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND" education.

    No problem, Run along and Be a good Hitler Youth and go find out what the ROvian/GOP line of the day is.We'll give you 24 hours for a real response as you can take in the Fox News talking points of the day and regurgitate it here.

    Keep up the Good Intellectual work Elitist Jitbag

     
  • At 6:45 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Dedicated to the one above who hates his neighbors and resents their having any good he thinks he might have provided for them. He can argue that all of these religions are wrong, that all the "bleeding heart Liberals" are wrong, that peace lovers are wrong, that the unselfish are wrong, but most of the enduring world thought puts him on the side of that which truly is wrong and is eventually harmful to him and others like him.

    CHRISTIANITY: ALL THINGS WHATSOEVER YE WOULD THAT MEN SHOULD DO TO YOU DO YE SO TO THEM; FOR THIS IS THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS. Matthew 7:1

    CONFUCIANISM: DO NOT DO TO OTHERS WHAT YOU WOULD NOT LIKE YOURSELF. THEN THERE WILL BE NO RESENTMENT AGAINST YOU, EITHER IN THE FAMILY OR IN THE STATE. Analects 12:2

    BUDDHISM: hHRT NOT OTHERS IN WAYS THAT YOUY YOURSELF WOULD FIND HURTFUL. Udana-Varga 5-1

    ISLAM: NO ONE OF YOU IS A BELIEVER UNTIL HE DESIRES FOR HIS BROTHER THAT WHICH HE DESIRES FOR HIMSELF. Sunnah

    JUDAISM: WHAT IS HATEFUL TO YOU, DO NOT DO TO YOUR FELLOWMAN. THIS IS THE ENTIRE LAW; ALL THE REST IS COMMENTARY. Talmud, Shabbat 3id

    TAOISM: REGARD YOUR NEIGHBOR'S GAIN AS YOUR GAIN AND YOUR NEIGHBOR'S LOSS AS YOUR OWN LOSS. Tai Shang Kan Yin P'ien

    ZOROASTRIANISM: THAT NATURE ALONE IS GOOD WHICH REFRAINS FROM DOING ANOTHER WHATSOEVER IS NOT GOOD FOR ITSELF. Dadisten-I-dinik, 94,5, 94.5

     
  • At 6:45 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Schmoe,
    In regards to 'intellectual work', I'd like to recap the 12 sentences you've contributed to this thread.

    STRUCTURE
    2 Cut and Pastes from other posts
    1 provocative question without adding content
    2 sentence fragments
    5 run-on sentences
    CONTENT
    2 required hitler/nazi references
    1 bonus Orwellian reference

     
  • At 6:56 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Ostroy is of course correct about how the Republicans would respond to Jesus were he to appear today. I'm not sure Jesus would be fond of them either since he really had little regard for hypocrits. Then who does, except other hypocrits.

     
  • At 7:05 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Hey religion-guy,
    You're right. I work for a living and would never want to take any portion of my neighbor's paycheck.
    I realize that my neighbor sacrificed weeks, months, years, and good times with friends and family to educate himself the best (s)he can. This hard work and sacrifice is a portion of this persons life. I would not want to take a portion of anyone's life to better my own.
    People who have sacrificed portions of their life to EARN the money they have deserve to spend that money on their family, because it is his/her family that also sacrificed by not spending time with that person when (s)he is WORKING.
    I'm glad that I'm not part of America's entitlement culture. I would feel bad taking money for work I did not do. I believe in a delaying satisfaction and saving money so I can say, "I earned this" instead of taking money from someone who earned it and saying, "it's my right to have this".
    I understand that I cannot always be right and that I'm not always the best. This is why I celebrate my neighbors gains. I am not jealous of someone who has more than me. I do not think I deserve that person's property because (s)he has something I do not.
    I give to charity. I actually support an entire extended family in a third-world country. I believe I can spend my money for humanitary purposes better than the corrupt people in Washington D.C can spend this money. I believe that D.C. Politicians, especially the Democrats, use class warfare for purposes of social engineering. This is wrong and I would not wish this on anyone. I do not see people as colors or races. Skin color is simply one of the millions of attributes that differentiates one human being from another. I also believe that the unborn deserve a chance and should not be aborted because the selfish parent is not ready to accept the responsibility of the decision to have sex. I have witnessed the beauty of a third trimester baby born early enough to be considered premature. Some people think it is their right to rip the head of this innocent life and throw both the head and the body into a blender. This is the procedure for Partial Birth Abortion, which has absolutely no medical purpose. I can't imagine how people can defend someone's "right" to destroy the most innocent life anyone has ever known.

     
  • At 7:06 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    A sentence with more than one clause is not a run-on sentence; a sentence is not a fragment if there is a clearly understood missing word which is "it" in this case; and, "In regard to" is correct. Not only that, the educated people in the world capitalize "Hitler" and "Nazi".

     
  • At 9:36 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Liberals and the rest of the sentence police do not have the focus to fight a war on terrorist.

    I do not trust the safety of my family in the hands of people who think you can distinguish educated from the uneducated by the words they capitalize.

    STAY ON SUBJECT PEOPLE!!

     
  • At 11:44 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Liberals would have aborted Jesus

     
  • At 7:48 AM, Blogger W.D. Russell said…

    Anonymous said...
    Liberals would have aborted Jesus

    11:44 PM
    Now there is the post of a real genius. I guess being a Bush worshipper doesn't require any real thinking.
    On the other hand I am not ashamed of my name either.

     
  • At 8:31 AM, Anonymous johnny said…

    Andy, where are all these WINGNUTS coming from? Shouldn't they be busy kissing their leader Bush's ass? Must be real slow on the GOP blogs these days (all 20 of them), good to see how stupid they really are by their double talk.

    Keep talking you people we always knew you were crazy, now we can really see how nuts you are.

    PS: If you all really had any balls you'd sign a name but then again I guess you're just a bunch of boot licking pussies.

     
  • At 8:37 AM, Anonymous johnny nickel dick said…

    Johnny,
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  • At 9:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Jesus would not have been aborted because he had a loving father who would take care of him and never walk out on that responsibility to Jesus and the rest of his family; he had a father who was able to see that Jesus was fed and clothed because he was not too poor to provide; his father would not insist that his mother abort or he, the father would leave; Mary's father would not kick her out for getting pregnant out of wedlock; and, Jesus' father wasn't interested in keeping Mary "barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen.

     
  • At 9:31 AM, Anonymous johnny said…

    You Jesus loving Bush ass kissing wingnuts have yet to EVER list 10 things your "god" in the White House has done for the average American. I'm still waiting and so is everyone else on this blog.

     
  • At 9:43 AM, Anonymous johnny said…

    Here are just a few of President Clintons accomplishments.

    Signed the Economic Package, August 10, 1993.

    The economy created 7.7 million new jobs in the first 34 months of this Administration.

    Passed the largest deficit-cutting plan in history -- saving more than $1 trillion over seven years.

    On track for three consecutive years of deficit reduction -- for the first time since Harry Truman.
    Cut federal spending by $255 billion over 5 years.

    Made new tax cuts available to over 90% of small businesses.
    Unemployment has fallen from 7% when President Clinton took office to its current rate of 5.6%
    Lowest combined rate of unemployment and inflation since 1968.

    1994 real GDP growth was the highest in a decade.
    Proposed a plan to balance the budget while protecting critical investments in education.

    Increased Head Start funding by almost $760 million.
    Passed the Student Loan Reform Act, August 10, 1993.

    Implemented the National Service Act, September 21, 1993.
    Signed the Goals 2000: Educate America Act, March 31, 1994.

    Enacted the School-to-Work Opportunities Act on May 4, 1994.
    Signed the Elementary and Secondary Education Act Reauthorization

    Passed the toughest most comprehensive Crime Bill ever, September 13, 1994
    Signed the Brady Bill, November 30, 1993.

    Enacted the Assault Weapons Ban as part of the Crime Bill.

    Put 100,000 new police on the street -- nearly 31,000 more officers have been funded.

    Signed the Violence Against Women Act as part of the Crime Bill.

    Signed the Safe and Drug-Free Schools Act, October 20, 1994.

    Issued Presidential Directive enforcing a "Zero Tolerance" gun policy in schools, October 22, 1994

    Submitted and fought for the most comprehensive Drug Control budget ever.

    Already cut the Federal Workforce by over 200,000 -- on the way to lowest level in 30 years.

    Abolishing 16,000 pages of obsolete regulations and rewriting 31,000 more pages.

    $58 billion in savings are already in the bank. $46 billion in savings are still to come.

    Over 180 new recommendations will save $70 billion. Eliminated 284 federal advisory committees.

    Developed government-wide Customer Service Standards for the first time.

    Appointed the most diverse Cabinet and Administration in history.
    Signed the most important federal procurement act ever to streamline government purchasing.

    Reformed Pension Benefit Guarantee Corporation to protect 8.5 million pensions.

    Signed the Unfunded Mandates Reform Act, March 22, 1995.

    Created nine Economic Empowerment Zones and 95 Enterprise Communities.

    Signed the Community Development Banking Financial Institutions Act, Sept. 23, 1994.

    Signed the Interstate Banking Bill, September 29, 1994.

    Instituted the Defense Reinvestment and Conversion Initiative.

    Reformed the Community Reinvestment Act to focus on performance rather than paperwork.

    Made the Low-Income Housing Tax Credit and Mortgage Revenue Bond Program permanent.

    Issued a new executive order to require polluters to disclose information to the public and expanded the public's right-to-know about toxic releases.

    Launched "reinventing environmental regulation" to cut red tape and better protect public health.

    Issued a new standard to cut pollution from chemical plants 90% by 1997.

    Signed executive orders to increase recycling and cut pollution in federal buildings.
    Signed the California Desert Protection Act, October 31, 1994.

    Issued a new standard to cut pollution from incinerators 95%.

    Introduced comprehensive Safe Drinking Water and Superfund reforms.

    Developed a plan to restore Florida's Everglades.

    Ended decades of conflict over the allocation of California Bay-Delta water.

    Passed the Family and Medical Leave Act, February 5, 1993.

    Signed a comprehensive Child Immunization Plan.

    Revoked the Reagan/Bush restrictions on abortion counseling ("the gag rule"), abortions in military hospitals, "Mexico City" policy and RU-486 imports.

    Increased Ryan White CARE Act funding for outpatient AIDS care over 100% in first 3 budgets.

    Put the Women, Infants and Children Program (WIC) on a full-funding path.

    Increased funding 65% for breast cancer research.

    As part of the balanced budget plan, introduced health care reform initiative which strengthens Medicare and expands coverage.

    Proposed a $1.3 billion increase in veterans' benefits -- of which $1 billion will be directed to the VA health system to provide treatment for 43,000 more veterans.

    Expanded the Earned Income Tax Credit providing tax relief for 15 million working families.

    Introduced the Work and Responsibility Act - comprehensive welfare reform.

    Passed the Family Support and Preservation Program.

    Passed major funding increases for homeless programs in both Houses.
    Approved 35 waivers to states permitting comprehensive welfare reform demonstrations.

    Collected a record $10 billion in child support through enforcement in 1994.

    Signed the Social Security Independent Agency Act.

    Increased adoption and foster care funds by almost $600 million from 1994-1995.

    You want more? There is plenty more but you all wouldn't understand it anyway.

     
  • At 10:43 AM, Blogger The Ostroy Report said…

    Johnny, shame on you. There you go again letting facts get in the way of opinion.
    Andy

     
  • At 11:34 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Johnny,
    Nice "facts". Explain to me how you give Clinton credit for:

    "Developed a plan to restore Florida's Everglades."

    but you won't even give the Bush administration credit for bringing freedom of oppression to a single person in Afghanistan??

    You give a rapist credit for "Signed the Violence Against Women Act as part of the Crime Bill."

    Your response is absurd. Unlike most liberals, you can't just throw a pile of statements at normal people and expect to win a debate with data overload.

    By the way, a good portion of what you mention is due to a conservative controlled congress.

    Sure, I'll take more, how about signing into law H.R. 4655, the "Iraq Liberation Act of 1998. Too bad (for you) Bush acted on Clinton's policy, huh?

     
  • At 11:56 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Bush has also just set aside 140,000 square miles of ocean, islands, atolls, and coral reef colonies as a marine sanctuary near Hawaii to protect monk seals, green sea turtles, and other rare species.

     
  • At 12:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Ok Anon, you win. Bush and Cheney have done wonders for the environment. What do we liberals know.

    Birkenstock Bob

     
  • At 12:07 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Bob,
    Thanks for proving the point that the liberal belief system is a means to justify the ends.

    Loafer Larry

     
  • At 12:14 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    True to form, Republicans don't understand the meaning of sarcasm. Look Larry, Bush and Cheney let the big oil and gas companies essentially write last year's energy bill, in a closed door, private mystery session that Cheney to this day refuses to be candid about. Honestly, I could not care less whether you're a Dem or a Repub. There's plenty of room for us all and I have respecvt for you as I would anyone else. But if you're going to debate that Bush and Cheney and the Repubs are pro-environment and have a record to prove it, you're going to make yourself look mighty silly. In case you're interested, every single environmental group in the world has come out against this admninistration's environmental policies. Oh, right...what do they know.

    Birkestock Bob

     
  • At 12:23 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Bob,
    I am not debating that bush is pro-environment. Johnny "10 things" has repeatedly asked multiple times the same question on many blogs for a list of 10 things Bush has accomplished.
    Johnny "10 things" will then ignore or dismiss anything and everything that is offered to him. At the same time, Johnny "10 things" counters with an enormous list of 'Clinton accomplishments', some of which are very abstract without any tangible proof that the suggested accomplishment actually did anything. Other suggested 'Clinton accomplishments' are directly the result of a conservative controlled congress. The rest of his suggestions may actually be Clinton accomplishments. I am open minded enough to accept as fact that Clinton accomplished things, even though I may disagree with his overall policies.
    One cannot participate in an intelligent debate when comparing two things using a sliding standard guided by political party.

    Loafer Larry

     
  • At 2:06 PM, Anonymous johnny said…

    Larry, this is just a partial list like I said. I’m STILL waiting for YOUR list of Bush’s accomplishments. Look I’ll make it easy on you, Google “Bush’s Accomplishments” and see what you find, then do the same for Clinton. The fact is you find tons for Clinton and NOTHING for Bush but why haven’t you Bush lovers posted anything, cause’ there isn’t any. Yes, I keep asking this question and will continue to until one of you Bush lovers can answer it.

    The islands off Hawaii were set aside finally by Bush after Clinton started it and the GOP congress sat on it for all these years. This does NOT help the average American since it’s well over 1,400 miles west north west of Hawaii.

    Come on guys show us all this wonderful list you claim to have of your “god” Bush’s accomplishments for the past 6 years, we’re waiting.

    PS: Yeah, Andy what was I thinking posting FACTS rather than just OPINIONS.

     
  • At 2:16 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Larry, in all fairness, you're correct. Not everything in Johhny's list may be as clear cut as you'd like, but it is still a factual, verifiable, documented, irrefutabale list of measures that were successfully achieved during Clinton's terms....whether or not you fully credit him with it or not. These things occured on his watch and we must give him credit for them. But also in fairness, you've been asked to come up with a similar list for Bush, and you haven't. Using the same standards, please list for us the measures/bills/laws passed, as well as stats on the economy, that you'd consider Bush's irrefutabale, documented accomplishments during his terms.
    Bob

     
  • At 3:50 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Bob,
    Really, in all fairness, I have responded to Johnny a couple of times in a couple of different threads. He ignores my responses, or as shown by johnny's 2:06 post - he discounts everything for one reason or another.

    If you give Clinton credit for coming up with a 'plan' to save the everglades, you have to give Bush credit for actually setting aside 1,400 miles of ocean, islands, atolls, and coral reef colonies as a marine sanctuary near Hawaii to protect monk seals, green sea turtles, and other rare species. Keep the measuring stick standard.

    Also, I don't believe it is the role of the government to do things for me. I want the government to protect the constitution and this nation's borders. Besides that, I don't want the government involved in the daily aspects of my life and I especially don't want the government in my wallet. Please don't call me selfish or uncaring because I don't believe the government belongs in my wallet. I do directly support an entire extended family in a third world country and I believe my money is better spent this way.

    Finally, it is possible to believe that Bush was the better of the alternatives offered by the Democrats and NOT be a 'bush lover'. For this reason, I think it's obvious to state that I haven't agreed with everything Bush has done.

    If Johnny needs a list so he can start communicating without asking the same thing multiple times on numerous blogs, I will provide a partial list. Not 10 things, but a list of things that have directly affected me, my family, and the extended family I support in another country.

    - I'm not rich and I got some of my money back from the government thanks to the Bush tax cuts. Of course, I pay taxes and hope you do too (although I don't wish it on you, check out the fairtax)

    - I kept my job as Bush got us through the Clinton recession.

    - My net worth has quadrupled during the bush years. All the money that I've earned was through my own hard work.

    - I bought my first house at the best 30-year fixed mortgage rate in decades during the bush years.

    - I paid off my college debt for my bachelors degree and earned my masters while working full time and paying for school (by myself).

    - I sold my small house during the best real estate market in decades to a first-time homebuyer during America’s highest rate of (total, first-time, AND minority) home ownership ever.

    - I know we are finally fighting the Islamic extremists that have been attacking and killing Americans without response during almost every one of the Clinton years.


    Larry

     
  • At 4:14 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Larry, with all due respect, these yardsticks are very personal and are not things that will end up in scholarly evaluations of the Bush presidency. Whether you agree with them or not, Johnny's will. The other thing that's wrong with your listing is that it only proves that people with means--good jobs, highly educated homeowners--have done well (perhaps) under Bush. That said, to play devil's advocate though, when you consider the shape America is in economically right now--historically high debt, huge energy costs, record bankruptcies etc--the country overall is not doing as well as you perhaps. The rift between the poor, middles class, and elite has widened.

    While I appreciate your list, I still join Johnny in asking you to list whatever actual accomplishments Bush has achieved. Not opinions or personal fortune, but laws and bills passed, and economic and militray stats that clearly show success and prosperity. No one can argue the unprecedented economic prosperity during Clinton's years. It's factual data. What you as a partisan can argue is on the interpretation, and the credit. So I compel you, come up with the factual data for Bush, as Johnny did for Clinton, and then we can argue over interpretation. If you wish to list the everglades thing, so be it. That's one.....
    Bob

     
  • At 4:28 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Bob,
    Actually, Johnny has been asking for a list of ways the Bush administration has helped the average American. I am an average American.

    The list johnny gave does not actually answer the question he puts to me, but it answers another question - list a bunch of measures/bills/laws passed under the Clinton administration. The list of measures/bills/laws under Bush can be easily provided, but that would not answer Johnny's stated question. If he changes, the question, I would change the answer.

    Larry

     
  • At 5:20 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Johnny & Bob,
    Below is a list of 10 factual and verifiable measures/laws/bills accomplished by the Bush administration:

    1) The American Dream Downpayment Act of 2003 is helping thousands of low to moderate income and minority families with downpayment and closing costs, which represent the greatest barrier to homeownership. Since 2002, when the executive office announced its goal to help 5.5 million minorities become homeowners by the end of this decade, the rate of minority homeownership has climbed above 50 percent, and more than 2.5 million minority families have become new homeowners. Nearly 70 percent of Americans enjoy the satisfaction of owning their own home.

    2) Since 2001, the Bush Administration has concluded or implemented free trade agreements with 15 countries. They are working toward agreements with 11 additional countries, and will continue to pursue further opportunities.

    3) USA Freedom Corps was created to build on the countless acts of service, sacrifice, and generosity that followed the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001. Over the past 4 years, USA Freedom Corps has worked to rally America's armies of compassion and bring together individuals and organizations committed to volunteer service. More than 65 million people volunteered in 2005, an increase of 5.6 million since 2002.

    4) The United States is working with its partners around the world to turn the tide against HIV/AIDS. In May 2003, the Bush administration committed $15 billion over 5 years to support treatment, prevention, and care. This plan is designed to support and strengthen the AIDS-fighting strategies of many nations, including 15 affected countries in Africa, Asia, and the Caribbean. Approximately 400,000 men, women, and children in sub-Saharan Africa have received life-saving treatment supported through this program. This is a remarkable improvement from 2 years ago, when just 50,000 people in sub-Saharan Africa were receiving treatment for HIV/AIDS.

    5) Bush signed into law the Energy Policy Act of 2005, which will increase the use of recycled materials in Federal construction projects. In addition, the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) operates the Resource Conservation Challenge, a national effort to encourage manufac-turers, businesses, and consumers to raise the national recycling rate to 35 percent. To help achieve this goal, the EPA launched the Plug-In To eCycling Campaign in cooperation with American businesses. This partnership helps increase awareness about the importance of reusing and safely recycling electronics and provides the public with additional opportunities to recycle.

    6) To increase access to comprehensive support and services for victims of domestic violence, in 2003 the Bush Administration announced the creation of the Family Justice Center Initiative. These centers bring together police officers, attorneys, counselors, doctors, victims' advocates, chaplains, and others so that domestic violence victims can more easily find the help and support they need. The Department of Justice has awarded over $20 million to support the creation of 15 Family Justice Centers across the country, and several of these centers have already opened their doors and are making a difference in victims' lives.

    7) All of America benefits from the strong and vibrant entrepreneurial spirit of our small business owners. By reducing taxes, encouraging investment, and removing obstacles to growth, the Bush Administration has helped American businesses thrive and create nearly 1.7 million new jobs since August 2003. In addition, the number of Small Business Administration loans to minorities increased by 40 percent last year to a 50-year record level. The Bush fiscal year 2005 budget request includes a 21 percent increase in funding for the Department of Commerce's Minority Business Development Agency, the largest increase in more than a decade.

    8) Establishment of the Identity Theft Task Force and strengthening Federal Efforts to Protect Against Identity Theft

    9) Designating the Global Fund to Fight Aids, Tuberculosis and Malaria as a Public International Organization Entitled to Enjoy Certain Privileges, Exemptions, and Immunities

    10) The Bush administration created a space exploration commission with the mission to provide recommendations to the President, on implementation of the vision outlined in the President's policy statement entitled "A Renewed Spirit of Discovery" and the Presidents Budget Submission for Fiscal Year 2005.

    Larry

     
  • At 6:06 PM, Blogger DarthJewdi said…

    Wow! Bush sure does do a lot (according to some) to help us regular folks out. Thank You, Jesus! How many murders does that erase, Jesus? Really?? None??? At all???? Man, that blows: GWB is going to Hell for all eternity, then? Bummer, dude.

     
  • At 6:10 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    "Larry" who got his Masters Degree with no help from anybody wrote: "I do directly support an entire extended family in a third-world country." Larry made no spelling or grammatical erorrs. Earlier, "Anonymous" wrote: "I actually support an entire extended family in a third-world country." There were mis-spelled words and grammatical errors. Can there be two readers of this blog with the same third-world charitable inclination; has Larry assumed another identity or did Larry "lift" that idea from "Anonymous" to support his own argument for being a "nice guy".? It may be one of the above. I think that it's probably that Republicans don't want their TAX MONEY or MONEY OUT OF THEIR POCKETS to go to support the "lazy-good-for-nothing people who won't work" as they like to think of them. Another reason could be that they hate Americans and would rather send money to children in other countries than to help the thousands of American children who have no health care and sometimes not enough food or even a place to live. It could be, however, that Republicans have to sign the check themselves so they can feel magnanimous or even unselfish or Chrisitian. It could be the tax deduction they get with a personal contribution. They might even think the American children have already developed "good-for-nothing" attitudes and urge their parents to "buy Vodka with their food stamps." One thing for sure, however, is that these two who resent the welfare program had enough themselves as children for them to survive and remain healty and able to do so well without anybody's help. (It could be they're like a relative of mine who said he was a Republican when he was working and a Democrat now that he's retired.)
    Of course if it's a matter of principle with these two (or one) they can vote in an administration that could make sure only the needy were helped and those who could, had to work. Of course that administraiton would also have to stop sending jobs to other countries, stop allowing corporations to exploit the worker so badly he doesn't have enough salary to support his family and stop allowing pensions to vanish.

     
  • At 6:24 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Shithead,
    Do you think it could it be possible that I posted twice? Considering I was responding to Johnny "10 times" who has by his own admission asked the same question multiple times on many different blogs? I know it's hard for you to image, but when the same thing is told over and over again, sometimes the wording is the same and sometimes it is slightly different. It’s possible that if Johnny “10 times” wasn’t asking the same question, you would not have observed the same response a second time.

    By the way, what do you do to support people less fortunate than yourself?

    You are obviously an idiot - do you believe all people who support families in third world countries hate Americans as well? Do people who support only Americans hate the people from other countries? You’re a nationalistic socialist who needs the government to take from others in order to support your shortcomings. I hope you aren’t raising children you sack of shit.

    "Larry"

     
  • At 6:35 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    I, "Larry", would like to know exactly what the liberals on this website do to help the poor. I'm not talking about paying taxes.

    What do you liberals take out of YOUR POCKET and give to other people?

    I would especially like to hear a response from the AssFace who is attacking me for supporting people in a third world country.

    Larry

     
  • At 7:21 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Unite peeple with an education and a brain!!! The GOPy goosesteppers can't fight facts and logic! They don't understand the nuances of language and have to resort to libel and slander...yuk, yuk, yuk!!! I have had a blast reading their schoolyard namecalling antics. I would say it is sad that that is all the wingnuts have to respond with, but then again, they are responsible for their own point of view.

    Like Johnny, I'm still waiting for that glorious, god inspired, list of Bush's accomplishments for the good of ALL.

    Here's a thought...what if the infinate power is really on the side of those who stand up and speak for ALL of God's children?

    Oh, who is really going to feel the rath of the God of Karma?

    Good catch on the finer points of the English language.

     
  • At 7:24 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Oh, I must be an educated liberal who can proofread and catch a spello. peeple should read people and guess what, my ego is still intact! That's more than I can say for some of the GOPer goosestepping writers that have been posting!

     
  • At 7:29 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Standing up and speaking doesn't put food on the table for 'the poor'.

    What do you liberals take out of YOUR POCKET and give to other people?

     
  • At 7:41 PM, Blogger Joe Smoe: American Citizen said…

    Anonymous said...
    Standing up and speaking doesn't put food on the table for 'the poor'.

    What do you liberals take out of YOUR POCKET and give to other people?

    7:29 PM

    Well, I'm no Liberal,but I will have money taken out of my pocket to fight and support Bush's B******* War in Iraq as well as, give tax cuts to his Rich pals.

    I find this very irritating as I never wanted anything to do with this lie based debacle and Trickle Down economics has a failed track record.

    Will there be anymore BS questions from you ANON GOP Lapdogs/TROLLS?

     
  • At 7:50 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Plenty, when Fuhrer Reagan cut the school breakfast and lunch programs, myself and other educators bought food to have on hand when a child in our classroom came too hungry to concentrate. We, and many like me, donate to the scout food drives and inner city pantries for the homeless.

    While we may not choose to send money to religion brokers or want tax cuts, we do contribute in a sizable way. Where are the braintrust folks who invented the computers and software you use? That has to be given to the blue states and, baby, the mentality is definitely different than the GOP narrow vision version.

    You can accuse all you want. Keep it up. Actions have consequences. Do yourself a favor. Turn off the computer and go sign up at your local recruiting office. Then you will be doing something good, too.

     
  • At 8:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    wow. You gave some food away 20 years ago. Great job.

    Any other liberals want to share what they take OUT OF THEIR POCKETS to give to 'the poor' ??

     
  • At 9:30 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Let's pose the same question to you.

    What have YOU taken out of YOUR pocket to feed the poor?

     
  • At 9:31 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Still waiting...

     
  • At 9:34 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Still waiting...

    Add the list of ten things Bush has done for the good of ALL.

    Still waiting...

    Is the question too difficult?
    Haven't got an answer?


    Still waiting...

     
  • At 9:40 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Too scared to reply?

    Hey, Republican, too scared to reply?

    Could it be because you, collectlively, are unable to truthfully answer the question?

    Still waiting...

    You've shown your true colors.

     
  • At 9:48 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Some of my favorite things that Clinton did


    *MASSIVE, UNPRECEDENTED DEBT REDUCTION

    *Transferring govt control of the internet to the private sector

    *Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994, which provided massive federal aid to local police and prison construction

    *North Ireland / Kosovo actions

    *Ummm, in case there's any wondering who was the best president fiscally in all of history:
    http://www.forbes.com/2004/07/20/cx_da_0720presidents.html

    OVERALL PROSPERITY for One Nation Indivisible

    *Five minutes into his presidency, he lifted the gag order on
    abortion counseling

    *Minimum Wage Increase. He-llo
    Thanks, Billy.

    Love & Kisses
    Cheney Rove

     
  • At 10:01 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Hey Libs!

    Warm up your apologies to the country!!

    Weapons of Mass Destruction Found in Iraq. 500 Chemical Warheads found in Iraq. They may be pre-Gulf War, but Saddam claimed he destroyed them.

    If they are WMD, you owe America an apology.

    If you want to diminish the find, I challenge you to store them in your house.

    LIBERALS ARE ALWAYS ON THE WRONG SIDE OF HISTORY. IT'S ALMOST TOO EASY - Democrats: the incredible shrinking party.

     
  • At 10:05 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Anybody still waiting for the minions of the GOPanistas to respond?

    Still waiting...

    Thanks for the lists of Clinton's accomplishments above.

    Too bad the minions can't come up with a matching one.

     
  • At 10:15 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Keep waiting idiot...I'll get back to you after we kick your ass during the next election (again)

    Vote Quimby

     
  • At 10:42 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Check out the response above!

    Cut and run is the name of the game by this minion because they have no answers for the questions!

    Like said before, the true colors are showing!

     
  • At 10:56 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Should not all progressives press forward the idea: if it's a war on terror to defend our way of lives, why aren't the Bush twins in the military? They are fit and of age; are they too good to fight their fathers' war of choice? The same spotlight should be shone on the sons, daughters, or their sons and daughters of ALL Repuglicans and their chickenhawk sympathizers. They should be honed for and answer; asked point blank, and their lame excuses plastered everywhere.

     
  • At 11:02 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Hey Anonymous,
    Do you have kids? Why don't you send your kids to work for your job?

     
  • At 11:04 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Personally, I'd like to see Bush, Cheney, and Rove's lillywhite a&&e& on the frontlines with NO special priviledges. That would be better than prison sentences for war crimes!

    I'd love to see some pissed off army doc pick schrapnel out of Rove's butt and have it shown on MSM! Although ,maybe that's his face rather than his butt. Hard to tell!

    What a bunch of lying losers!

     
  • At 11:07 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    500 Chemical Warheads found in Iraq.

    LIBERALS WERE WRONG AGAIN

    So long suckers!!

     
  • At 11:30 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    I'm the 70th post...na na ra ra ra

    Here it is:

    American teachers are worse sexual predators than the priests. Stop molesting our children.

    ABOLISH THE NEA

     
  • At 1:09 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Ah hemmm, the Department of Defence has already released a statement denouncing Santorum and Hoekstra claim of WMD. Seems they had it wrong. Those weapons they were spouting about were already known by the WH and the DOD and listed as ones not used for the reason to go to war.

    Don't believe me, GOP idiots? Go to Think Progress.org.

    Now get ready to say YOU'RE sorry!

     
  • At 8:24 AM, Anonymous CATHY said…

    FOR ALL YOU REPUBS: YOU DO NOT OWN MY GOD AND JESUS.

    HOW YOU OFFEND ME! I WOULD BE VERY CAREFUL WITH THE WAY YOU USE RELIGION AND GOD TO DESTROY OUR COUNTRY.

    READ YOU HISTORY. PEOPLE CAME HERE TO GET AWAY FROM RELIGIOUS TERRORISTS LIKE YOU!

    CATHY
    FROM THE ONCE GREAT STATE OF MICHIGAN

     
  • At 9:22 PM, Anonymous Ken Duerksen said…

    Jesus was a man who traveled throught the land;
    a hard working man and brave;
    well he said to the rich: "Give your money to the poor";
    so they laid Jesus Christ in his grave.

    He went to the preachers, he went to the law;
    he told them all the same;
    he said "take all your jewelry and give it to the poor;
    so they laid Jesus Christ in his grave.

    When Jesus came to town all the working folks around;
    believed what he did say;
    but the Bankers and the Preachers, they nailed him to the cross;
    and they laid Jesus Christ in his grave.

    and the poor working people, they followed him around;
    oh how they'd sing and shout and pray;
    but the cops and the sopldiers they nailed him in the air;
    and they laid Jesus Christ in his Grave.

    This song was written in New York City;
    home of rich man, preacher, and slave;
    Where if Jesus was to preach what he preached in Galilee;
    they would lay Jesus Christ in his Grave.

    Woody Guthrie

     
  • At 9:40 PM, Blogger WWMFJD said…

    Hey Annonymous Brownshirts:

    All those "WMD" you just ejaculated over were repudiated by the justice department as poop-dust rejects from before the Gulf War - well past shelf-life and unusable as weapons. Just keep twiddling your thumbs, maybe they'll find some Mentos and Diet Coke.

     
  • At 9:52 PM, Anonymous jason said…

    This was an entertaining read. Thanks to all.


    Three thoughts on discourse in America:

    No matter what your particular emotional stake in the political situation of the moment may be, don't be so naive as to think it's not about oil.

    No matter what your particular emotional stake in the religious obsession of the moment may be, don't be so naive as to think mythology matters at all outside Israeli policy.

    No matter what, we are choking this planet to death.


    Hey Cathy. Michigan still rules. Even my Repuglican rep in Congress is pro-pot. Well, kinda.

     
  • At 11:33 PM, Anonymous larry said…

    Actually both arguments are correct. SOME of these exact weapons were detailed in the Iraqi Survey Group Final Report.

    Iraq's Chemical Weapons Program
    Annex F

    "Beginning in May 2004, ISG recovered a series of chemical weapons from Coalition military units and other sources. A total of 53 munitions have been recovered, all of which appear to have been part of pre-1991 Gulf war stocks based on their physical condition and residual components."

    Only 53 were found and detailed in the report. Santorum is saying that over 500 have been found. This find doesn't make 'war' worth it, but it is a documented fact that SADDAM DID HAVE WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION.

    These weapons may have been before the Gulf war, but that is part of the point. When the Gulf war coalition pushed Saddam out of Kuwait, Saddam surrendered.

    One of the conditions of Saddam's surrender was the verifiable destruction of all his weapons of mass destruction. Saddam never met this condition in 13 years. Anyone that doubts the conditions of his surrender can browse the United Nations website - it's all there.

    After 9/11, any sitting President needs to re-evaluate existing risks. Iraq was already a problem and we were spending billions of dollars a year keeping Saddam in check and patrolling his northern and southern no-fly zones (although our pilots were shot at frequently). Bush may have made the wrong decision to invade Iraq, but Gore may have made the same decision if he was the President.

    Nobody knows what Gore would have done. Maybe he would have done it better, maybe he would have done it worse. Maybe he wouldn't have invaded Iraq and we'd be in peace, or maybe we would be fighting the same terrorists in another country after they blew up one of our cities.

     
  • At 12:36 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Calm Down Larry - even the government boys said they were not WMD worthy canisters by the time they were found by the USA. Yes, at one time serious stuff, but for this argument it does not prove Saddam had WMD. He had them at one time, but not in the context of this particular war. Besides the search was for nuclear weapons and yellow cake, not canisters of sarin and mustard gas. Big difference. And by the way, those types of weapons have NOT been found.

    The WH and DOD had already weighed in on these particular canisters and found to NOT be a significant threat. Santorum is 18% behind in his race for re-election and so this, sadly, looks like an attempt to boost his credibility. It didn't work.

    This info was telecast by both CNN and MSNBC today. So watch the re-casts of Lou Dobbs and Keith Olbermann. J

     
  • At 12:41 AM, Blogger WWMFJD said…

    Larry,

    No, the weapons they "found" and that Santorum flipped over were rotted mustard gas that, according to David Kay, might give a person a skin irritation in a case of direct contact, but were: 16 years old (found in a stash on the Iranian border - obviously from the Iran/Iraq war when Saddam was our ALLY, STOOGE, and PROXY); no longer usable as weapons; and were definitively NOT the weapons described in the frantic fear-feat toward war.

    Also, you said:

    "maybe we would be fighting the same terrorists in another country after they blew up one of our cities".

    Please pay attention. We are not fighting anyone involved in the attacks on New York or Washington: we are fighting insurgents that reject our permanent claim on their country; and in doing so we are creating "terrorists" who hate us because we've killed their families and destroyed their country. Al Qeada has seized on the opportunity handed to them by Bush to score some PR points, and the administration has been happy to inflate their role in violence; but no one credible and serious claims that Iraq is a struggle with Osama.

     
  • At 8:08 AM, Anonymous Larry said…

    wwmfjd and anonymous,
    If these weapons are so useless, I'd like to see you bury them in your backyard. They are not at full strength, but it doesn't mean they won't can't kill. Rumsfeld and General Casey were on C-SPAN yesterday saying that they were still dangerous munitions.
    These are weapons of mass destruction and saddam had them in his country. The anonymous claim that we invaded to find nuclear weapons is false. Try citing that assertion with a factual and verifiable reference. The best you'll get is a belief that saddam was reconstituting nuclear weapons PROGRAMS, not holding nuclear weapons.
    wwmmfjd, unlike you, I am paying attention. Al Qaeda in Iraq is a terrorist organization that was headed by Zarqawi who was in Iraq before we invaded. Zarqawi was Jordanian, not Iraqi. The new leader of Al Qaeda in Iraq is also not Iraqi. I'm sure we are fighting some Iraqis who are mad that they lost power when Saddam fell. Most Iraqis are shiite and/or kurdish, who were opprosed and murdered by Saddam. Most Iraqis are happy Saddam is gone and they have a hope for democracy.

     
  • At 9:01 AM, Blogger The Ostroy Report said…

    WWMFJD said: "Please pay attention. We are not fighting anyone involved in the attacks on New York or Washington: we are fighting insurgents that reject our permanent claim on their country; and in doing so we are creating "terrorists" who hate us because we've killed their families and destroyed their country. Al Qeada has seized on the opportunity handed to them by Bush to score some PR points, and the administration has been happy to inflate their role in violence; but no one credible and serious claims that Iraq is a struggle with Osama."

    This one of the smartest things I've read on this board yet.

    Larry said: "The anonymous claim that we invaded to find nuclear weapons is false. Try citing that assertion with a factual and verifiable reference. The best you'll get is a belief that saddam was reconstituting nuclear weapons PROGRAMS, not holding nuclear weapons."

    Larry, I suppose Tony Blair was referring to "weapons programs" when he gravely warned his citizens, along with Bush, about "mushroom clouds" that could be just "45 minutes away?" What about the Busheviks' numerous claims and warnings of WMD? Are you forgetting Powell's alarmist presentation to the UN Security Council? Rumsfeld's claim that "we know where the WMD are?"; or Cheney's countless warnings about WMD and the need to invade? Maybe what I'll do for my next blog, just for you and other Republicans, Larry, is to run a list of all of the Bushevik direct quotes on WMD. Maybe then you'll agree with what most of the rest of the world is already highly pissed about.

    I really wish you Repubs would do more homework. Maybe then you'd be much less accepting of your president's words and actions, and with his performance in office.

    Andy

     
  • At 9:20 AM, Anonymous Larry said…

    Ostroy,
    I'm referring to the reason the US invaded, not Britian. Please stay on topic. I knew the mushroom cloud comment would be brought up. I still challenge anyone to find factual and verifiable proof that we invaded because it was believe Iraq had nuclear weapons - not nuclear weapon programs.
    The chemical weapons we found are weapons of mass destruction. They may be old, but they are WMD. Saddam was supposed to verifiably destroy or account for them - but he failed to do it. This failure broke the agreement of Surrender for the first Gulf war. The invasion is justified by UN resolutions.
    Go ahead and run a list of all the bush administration comments claiming weapons of mass destruction. I'll counter with Clinton administration comments claiming the same thing during the Clinton administration.
    I've done my homework. The posts that I put up with references gets ignored or anonymously attacked with baseless claims that are not verifiable anywhere other than liberal blogs.

     
  • At 10:07 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    I'm beginning to think "Larry" is on the payroll like Armstrong Williams and others. If not that, I can't understand how he cannot comprehend unrefutable information.

     
  • At 12:08 PM, Anonymous Larry said…

    The only payroll I'm on is for my job. You may have heard of this, it's what you call earning your money and paying taxes. Come to think of it, you may be on my payroll if you accept any government social services.

    I'm not sure what "unrefutable" means, but it IS irrefutable that:

    August 2, 1990 - Iraq invades Kuwait and is condemned by United Nations Security Council (UNSC) Resolution 660 which calls for full withdrawal.

    August 8, 1990 - Iraq announces the merger of Iraq and Kuwait.

    November 29, 1990 - UNSC Resolution 678 authorizes the states cooperating with Kuwait to use "all necessary means" to uphold UNSC Resolution 660.

    January 16-7, 1991 - The Gulf War starts when the coalition forces begin aerial bombing of Iraq ("Operation Desert Storm").

    February 24, 1991 - The start of a ground operation in Iraq

    February 27, 1991 - Liberation of Kuwait

    February 28, 1991 – Operation Desert Storm - Combat operations suspended.

    March 3, 1991 - Iraq accepts the terms of a ceasefire.

    April 3, 1991 - UNSC Resolution 687, quote "Deploring threats made by Iraq during the recent conflict to make use of terrorism against targets outside of Iraq and the taking of hostages by Iraq,".

    Section C.8. "Decides that Iraq shall unconditionally accept the destruction, removal, or rendering harmless, under internation supervision, of:

    (a) All chemical and biological weapons and all stocks of agents and all related subsystems and components and all research, development, support and manufacturing facilities related thereto;"

     
  • At 12:37 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Larry doesn't want to hear the truth and he takes what Rumsfeld says at face value. Of course Rumsfeld would say they are dangerous weapons. He has to stick to the story and not break from the Bush ranks. In other words, Rummy has to keep shoring up the reason to go to war. The actual person(s) who FOUND and INSPECTED the weapons said that they were degraded beyond being lethal. At most, someone may receive burns on skin contact from the mustard gas.

    It's good that Larry painstakingly types all the "Manual" info. It is good for informing readers.

    However, the reality is, in this case, that the government, yes, that means Bush Co., had religated these particular weapons as not WMD and therefore not a reason to go to war.

    The reason for going to war was to find nuclear components and weapons in Saddam's possession, which have never been found.

    Santorum played a political card by announcing this from a two- month old government report and it backfired.

    Shall we swiftboat Rumsfeld for his position? He did not inspect the weapons himself and wasn't there that day, so how could he know what he was talking about? He never went into Iraq and helped search for weapons of any sort! So how could he know what he is purporting? He is a liar!!!

     
  • At 1:02 PM, Blogger WWMFJD said…

    Larry said: "Rumsfeld and General Casey were on C-SPAN yesterday saying that they were still dangerous munitions."

    Rummy actually parsed his statement in such a way so that it could be construed as referring to "mustard gas" - which is the only context in which he could be said to be speaking the truth. In that the discussion was about the particular cache of degraded munitions recovered at the Iranian border by US personnel over two years ago and made a matter of current debate the other day by a desparate Senator from PA, Rummy was lying his ass off.

    David Kay was once Bush's enthusiastic hand-picked weapons inspector; but even he had to face facts and preserve his own integrity by reporting that nothing they were sent to Iraq to find was in or anywhere near existence. He is now a parriah; shunned by the administration and discarded from the CIA with disrespect and vitriol. But he's still a legitimate expert, and he's repudiated Santorum as a shiftless liar; since "man-on-dog" Rick and Rummy are on the same page in this fiasco, Rummy would also fall into this category.

    As for my willingness to "bury them in my backyard"; your desparation is showing. According to Kay, these materials have not been categorical as weapons for years; and the context in which they were deposited suggested strongly that noone in Saddams regime of three years ago had any idea that they existed.

    A far more relevant question in this petulant vein would be for me to ask you about your willingness to do a few tours in Iraq, "putting your money where your mouth is", or "backing your own play", as it were.

     
  • At 1:19 PM, Blogger WWMFJD said…

    More to Larry:

    You said: "wwmmfjd (sic), unlike you, I am paying attention. Al Qaeda in Iraq is a terrorist organization that was headed by Zarqawi who was in Iraq before we invaded."

    Ok, just where in Iraq is reputed to have been? In northern Iraq - the semi-autonomous Kurdish territory that was in borderline rebellion against Saddam for years. Why wouldn't a close buddy of Saddam's set up shop closer to Baghdad in the Sunni Triangle, if Saddam was so hot for him; why would he choose a locale full of pro-American partisans and as far from Saddam's influence as one could get in Iraq.

    More inporetantly, why should we give any credibility to any self-serving, johnny-come-lately "intelligence" from the pack of pirates running our government? Remember when they placed Zarqawi IN Baghdad prior to our invasion - ostensibly to get his leg amputated by Saddam's personal surgeons, or something? Well I don't recall hearing about a leg-stump on that list of "identifying scars" on his body that Bush boasted about toconfirm his big kill.

    This is a crowd of Straussian freaks who think they're smarter than everyone, and therefore legitimized in any criminal action they fell like taking; and a Straussian's fundamental principal is "never tell the truth - they can't handle the truth".

     
  • At 1:26 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    wwmfjd - we are beginning to see alot of desparation talk from the rightwingers. Everything from sophmoric namecalling to narrow vision arguments to actually using facts!

    Thanks for your insightful posts and for identifying the desparation.

    IMHO, it's everyone's intellectual duty to look at ALL the facts, not just the ones they like to hear. It's a grownup world! J

     
  • At 3:39 PM, Blogger The Ostroy Report said…

    Larry said: "Go ahead and run a list of all the bush administration comments claiming weapons of mass destruction. I'll counter with Clinton administration comments claiming the same thing during the Clinton administration."

    Uhm...er...Larry...I hate to tell ya this bro, but it doesn't matter what Clinton said. He didn't invade Iraq. Whatever Clinton may have believed about Iraq and WMD, ultimately, he decided that the intel on this subject was not actionable. Unfortunatelky for us all, it's too bad Bush didn't draw the same conclusion. It's incredible, and highly ironic, that you criticize Clinton for the very things--prudent, pragmatic, intelligent leadership--that Bush, in his irresponsible rush to war, didn't exercise.

     
  • At 4:25 PM, Anonymous Larry said…

    Clinton also thought the following was not actionable:

    Clinton also thought the attacks against the USS Cole,

    the attacks against our embassies in Kenya and Tanzania,

    Osama Bin Laden's public declaration of war against the United States,

    The discovery of the Al Qaeda plot, called "Project Bojinka," involved ramming a fuel-laden airliner into the Pentagon.

    Although Clinton decided the intelligence to send 13 cruise missiles into a Sudanese Aspirin Factory 3 days after he admits that he lied under oath regarding an "inappropriate relationship" with former White House Intern, Monica Lewinsky.

     
  • At 5:21 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Larry - going back to Clinton is a desparate attempt to make Bush look better. If Clinton is all the rightwing has to hold onto, it lets us know just how much y'all are trembling in your boots.

    The facts are the facts, Larry.
    Clinton was different times and different situations. We have NOW to deal with and, let's face it, your boy Bush and his henchmen make for a LOUSY administration.

    Stick to now and you'll make better arguments. Monica has nothing to do with No WMD, huge budget deficits, and a possible illegal war with 2500+ dead. What Clinton did or didn't do doesn't link up with the Plame case, the Abramoff corruption, or the possible stolen elections in Ohio and Florida. Ohio and Diebold electronic voting machine election scam, anyone?

    We're seeing the Clinton stuff alot from you guys. Does that mean you can't defend your GOP president and company or does it mean you're just into the sophmoric blame the other guy mode?
    Can't defend the GOP craziness with facts that are positive? Maybe it's time to break on through to higher level thinking!!
    J

     
  • At 5:22 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Larry - going back to Clinton is a desparate attempt to make Bush look better. If Clinton is all the rightwing has to hold onto, it lets us know just how much y'all are trembling in your boots.

    The facts are the facts, Larry.
    Clinton was different times and different situations. We have NOW to deal with and, let's face it, your boy Bush and his henchmen make for a LOUSY administration.

    Stick to now and you'll make better arguments. Monica has nothing to do with No WMD, huge budget deficits, and a possible illegal war with 2500+ dead. What Clinton did or didn't do doesn't link up with the Plame case, the Abramoff corruption, or the possible stolen elections in Ohio and Florida. Ohio and Diebold electronic voting machine election scam, anyone?

    We're seeing the Clinton stuff alot from you guys. Does that mean you can't defend your GOP president and company or does it mean you're just into the sophmoric blame the other guy mode?
    Can't defend the GOP craziness with facts that are positive? Maybe it's time to break on through to higher level thinking!!
    J

     
  • At 5:34 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Sorry for the double posts-the system appears to be a little messed up

     
  • At 10:13 PM, Blogger WWMFJD said…

    Larry identified this as an oversight of Clinton's:

    "The discovery of the Al Qaeda plot, called "Project Bojinka," involved ramming a fuel-laden airliner into the Pentagon."

    - but Larry, that is not possible. As we have been informed ad nauseam by Condi, Rummy, and Junior; "no one could have imagined" anyone using commercial airplanes as weapons!

    Of course, this being the case, we need to find an explanation as to why "Project Bojinka" never occurred under Clinton's watch, despite Larry's identification of this threat as being classified as "not actionable" by Clinton; and also why Clinton got NORAD doing regular war-game scenarios in which the WTC and the pentagon were rammed by...commercial aircraft! These prescient exercises were viewed as fatuous by Bush's "national security team"(hah!) and abruptly discontinued early in the Bush administration's first year.

    Larry, history is going to enshrine you 21st-century Republicans amidst the most stupid and vicious willing slaves in its annals.

     
  • At 8:35 AM, Blogger WWMFJD said…

    Larry's works at a job providing "government services"? Talk about your potential victims of cognitive dissonace; rallying around the people dedicated to the elimination of your livelihood is a tell-tale sign of some deeply seated self-destructive impulses.

    Unless, of course, those "services" involve Jeff Gannon's website or rauncy poker parties thrown for Republican congressmen at the Watergate Hotel...

     
  • At 9:14 AM, Anonymous Larry said…

    I'm only bringing up Clinton because its required in order to discuss the Iraqi war without wearing your partisan blinders. Anyone who doesn't drink the liberal KoolAid would agree.

    To fully analyze the Iraq war in context you have to go back to Clinton and even Bush(41) years. Hell, to FULLY analyze this war you have to review Reagan, Carter, and all the way back to project ajax in the 1950's.

    It is convenient for liberals to take the Iraqi war out of context and only look at it during the Bush administration, but Bush would not have had the UN resolutions approving this invasion without the 13 years that preceeded the invasion of Iraq.

     
  • At 12:33 PM, Blogger WWMFJD said…

    "To fully analyze the Iraq war in context you have to go back to Clinton and even Bush(41) years. Hell, to FULLY analyze this war you have to review Reagan, Carter, and all the way back to project ajax in the 1950's."


    Don't stop there; the British mandate following WWI is seminal to this entire mess.

    However, it's first thing you've written that I agree with, and I agree wholeheartedly - I just don't believe that you mean it.

    Just how do you interpret the chain of events leading from our methodical destruction of democracy in Iran in 1953 to the corporatist quagmire we are perpetrating in Iraq as we speak?

     
  • At 12:51 PM, Anonymous larry said…

    wwmfjd,
    I believe what I post. Furthermore, I detailed part of the chain-of-events as part of a discussion with Johnny in the Democrats 5-Point Plan thread of this website.

    Unfortunately, the post was generally ignored except for 1 anonymous person who simply attacked it as bullshit and then provided no intelligent counterpoints to further the discussion.

    I encourage you to read that post so I don't have to cut-and-paste it into this thread (I was also attacked anonymously for making the same point twice using slightly different wording).

    I'll tell you in advance that some stuff is missing, like our propping up of Saddam to get back at Iran, but it doesn't mean I don't believe this as true. The main point of that post is that I believe both Democrats and Republicans (as well as other countries) are at fault for today's global condition.

     
  • At 1:37 PM, Blogger WWMFJD said…

    Well, I think I found the post you refer to: a dozen or so posts above and beginning with Saddam's invasion of Kuwait in 1990? I have to say that it is a fairly sterile listing of events following the point at which Saddam became our enemy, fully devoid of much interpretation and obviously giving undo weight to a UN resolution and the legal-ese that's been used to emphasize Saddam's infractions against it. Yawn.

    You mentioned Ajax, so I thought you might like to show us how your support of this president and his justifications for his war can be squared with the uncomfortable history of that event - not to mention our petulant war-mongering in the region (you know, when we empowered, armed, and supported Saddam?) following our humiliation in the Iranian Revolution of the late 1970's.

    I agree that American foreign policy - particularly during the last half of the 20th century - has been unforgivably criminal despite which party is running the scams. Sure, Clinton danced to the tune of MIC with the rest of them and I repudiate him for many callous acts, and for many ameliorative actions not taken. But he was on balance a responsible steward of our international relationships and image (not to mention our treasury - Holy Cow! What a Surplus!). Bush and his freakish neocon wizards ARE the MIC, and they are clearly using their capacity to create and sustain chaos to siphon personal profits from foreign resources and out of the American taxpayers' pockets the same way Cheney sends a dog in to flush out quail.

     
  • At 3:39 PM, Blogger The Ostroy Report said…

    Larry said: "To fully analyze the Iraq war in context you have to go back to Clinton and even Bush(41) years. Hell, to FULLY analyze this war you have to review Reagan, Carter, and all the way back to project ajax in the 1950's."

    Sorry Larry. Politics doesn;t work this way. It was Bush's decision to invade Iraq, not Clinton's, Reagan's or even his own dad's. Republicans don't get to blame anyone else for this miserable failure other than Bush 43 & Co. Just like Republicans would not be sharing any of the credit with other president's if the war miraculously should turn out to be a huge success.

     
  • At 5:56 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    I have one word for Bush Co.

    Corruption


    I have one sentence for Larry and friends.

    Follow the oil.


    I have one thought for all of us.

    Aren't we all beyond mad over any of the crimes this administation commits on a daily basis?

    "illegal" war
    "illegal" wire tapping
    "illegal" bank records searches
    "illegal" laws signed w/o congressional and/voter oversight
    "illegal" voter/vote machine influence
    "illegal" campaign funding
    "illegal" business practices by friends of high ranking members of the administration. Perhaps by themselves, also.
    "illegal" prisons and detainment of prisoners

    To name a few.

    Why has the word illegal lost it's meaning to the Republicans and the Bush administration?

    Could corruption be the answer?

    Forget the history lessons, Larry.
    The problem is now and it grows larger every day.

     
  • At 10:30 AM, Anonymous larry said…

    OK, the problem is now and it grows larger every day.

    Democrats are not the solution, either.

    Throw all Democrats and all Republicans out of office. Vote for only independent third party candidates. Democrats are just more of the same. As much as the leftwing wants americans to believe, there's no real difference between democrats and republicans.

     
  • At 11:45 AM, Blogger WWMFJD said…

    Larry,

    There are Democrats that prove your point, but there are also members of the party that take very principled and rational stands on today's crucial issues. Feingold, for instance, has been consistent in his position regarding the foolishness of of our Iraq policy, and impressively articulate and cogent in presenting it. He will not mince words with Hillary, liebermann, or any other DINO out there.

    This contrasts with the pathetic regimentation of the Republicans. McCain may play to the "maverick" label on the stump, Specter may huff and puff about "executive over-reach" from his commitee chair, and Hagel may criticize his associates' partisan rhetortic, but when the votes are counted these sheep are ALWAYS safely back in the fold with the rest of Dick "Bo Peep" Cheney's flock.

    But as for voting independent? - oh yeah, go for it! We need 5, 10, 15 political parties in this country - but first we have to get our democratic republic back from the oligarchs.

     
  • At 11:04 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    So now Larry has once again refused to face the problems with the Republican party by trying to lump Democrats into the mix. He also suggests that we vote for the Independents.

    Things will never get better until Republicans quit enabling, by voting for and supporting corrupt politicians, and Democrats do the same to their corrupt politicians.

    Until the Republicans are finally able to boot their own "criminals", they will always be part of the problem. Go after Frist, make sure DeLay serves time, ferret out all the others that hit the MSM with less than honest behavior, include Cheney and Bush on the list. You want the Dems to change - well how about doing some changing in your own party? The party that happens to own the list of illegal activities and legislators under investigation and/or indictment. The REPUBLICANS!! Noitice I said the Dems should do the same.

    Dream on about the Independents taking over.

     
  • At 11:59 AM, Anonymous Larry said…

    Delay is gone. How about William Jefferson on your side?

     
  • At 4:15 PM, Blogger WWMFJD said…

    Please, Larry.

    Jefferson , by his actions, has removed himself from "our side". The Democrats - unanimously, as far as I have heard - themselves called for his removal from his commitee seat. And don't hold your breath waiting for partisan defense of this bum, assuming the case against him is as it has been presented to us.

    The Republicans, on the other hand, all seem to stand by any crook in their midst despite how crooked. Remember the House "Ethics Commitee", and how it used to convene under the Democrats against wrongdoers of either party? (Traficant come to mind)

     
  • At 4:48 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Jeez Larry, that was brilliant! You and your ilk are still avoiding the real message. The Republicans have their fingerprints all over the mess and corruption. DeLay is not behind bars and therefore can still be seen as a poster boy for the GOP, ie fundraisers, etc. The problem is that the elected GOP officals corruption devolves to GOP voters and makes y'all look less than trustworthy. Do I want to do business with a kool-aid drinker? What else is this yo-yo twisting into being ok? Abuse of others?

    Get the picture? If you are not questioning then why are you taking up space and oxygen?

     
  • At 9:52 PM, Anonymous larry said…

    wwmfjd and anonymous,
    William Jefferson has not 'removed himself'. HE VOTED TODAY ON HR 4973. If he is still voting, he is still on the Democratic side of the isle.
    Delay was not indicted because there was not enough evidence to prove him guilty. I believe in innocence until proven guilty. If he or any republicans are PROVEN guilty by the same standards you would hold a democrat to, then I say put him in jail.
    Last I heard, the republicans have a republican rule requiring republicans to step down if they're indicted for a criminal offense. The democrats do not have this rule, and if they did, around 22 democrats would have to step down.
    You should have nothing to say until William Jefferson resigns from office. Do you even care how the $90,000 got in his freezer? I bet you don't.

     
  • At 10:04 PM, Anonymous larry said…

    Speaking of corrupt, how about John "Abscam" Murtha ?

    Murtha's brother, "Kit" Murtha and a former John Murtha coworker of 20+ years work for a Washington lobbyist firm, which reeled in more than $20 million for 10 defense contractor clients in the 2004 Defense appropriations bill.

    Murtha happens to be the ranking Democrat on the Defense appropriations subcommittee, which he also chaired for six years before Democrats lost the House in 1994.

    But, I bet you liberals find nothing fishing with this corruption either. I'm sure Murtha's brother and former coworker didn't get any special treatment, because Murtha is a Democrat.

     
  • At 10:07 PM, Anonymous larry said…

    How about corrupt Nancy Pelosi ?

    Two political action committees linked to House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi have been charged with attempting to circumvent to legal limits on campaign giving, the Federal Election Commission has ruled.

    According to the March 2004 FEC finding, Pelosi appears to have violated the same kind of arcane campaign finance regulation that spurred the indictment of House Majority Leader Tom DeLay.

    Oh no, this couldn't be...ANOTHER CORRUPT DEMOCRAT ?? I thought it was only republicans that were corrupt.

     

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